Ridiculous NHS advert for Director for Lived Experience

Growstuff, I'm sorry that happened and you were absolutely right to pull me up on what I posted, I should have been more thoughtful. My dd has a learning disability and I very strongly believe she has a right to be supported to make her own decisions and be treated as a human being, something people often forget.

JaneJudge

Growstuff, it was meant with kindness but I acknowledge it could be perceived as patronising and I apologise.

I wasn't getting at you. I was thinking of my own experience.

There's still huge stigma and lack of understanding surrounding mental health issues. I just wanted to be treated as the human being I still was. I hadn't become less intelligent or capable. It was frustrating to be treated like an idiot.

Growstuff, it was meant with kindness but I acknowledge it could be perceived as patronising and I apologise.

My understanding is that lived experience can include having somebody very close to you who has been through the service too, so your partner, child, parent who you live with etc. too, as you experience the service through their eyes and as their carer?

Maybe something has been gained from this discussion - now these terms have been explained, an area of health which is still often "under wraps" further opened up.

Now if someone can help me explain to people why I object to people saying of someone "they're mental.....

JaneJudge

it isn't jargon though? I'm a bit worried about the person who has lived experience though who might take the job as it sounds quite stressful!

Any senior role is stressful, but I think it's quite patronising to assume that people who have had mental health issues can't deal with stress and responsibility.

Sometimes people think they're being kind when they don't give people demanding tasks, but actually what they're saying is that they don't think the person with mental health issues is up to it, which is insulting.

"Lived experience" is an accepted term. There have been books and papers written about it, conferences, policies, CPD and it appeared in the 2017 NHS planning document.

If it were to be changed to appease a few ignorant journalists, it would make the employers sound as though they don't know what they're doing.

Ilovecheese

It sounds like jargon to outsiders though, and that makes it a target for the sort of Rod Liddle ish articles that want to attack the NHS

More fool Rod Liddle and anybody who listens to him.

Who's being ridiculous here?

First hand knowledge

Just thinking -I bet there was an outcry when the term, say "Matron" was replaced and ward/hospital management terms introduced.

Language evolves all the time, as do ways of best caring and delivering treatment, and we are bound to find new descriptions evolving.

I've been trying to work out an alternative title but nothing describes it quite as well. Open to ideas!

But the "jargon" means something to the people who might want to apply for the job. If the employer simplified the Job Description and didn't use industry terminology they could be thought of as a bit naïve and not really on top of what was happening in the industry. Better to have lazy journalists jumping to conclusions than to have nobody apply for the job because they think it's trivial and not worth applying for.

lived experience is honestly widely used terminology in social and health care

I have worked on an employment panel voluntarily as someone with lived experience employing people to work and support people with complex learning disabilities as that's my care experience (as a care giver)

CoolCoco

Its not a "non-job", why do people who don't understand the terminology used jump to that assumption? Those working within the field of mental health understand what "lived experience" means in the context of that field. Those who don't understand it i.e. those who don't work in mental health feel free to make snide and baseless comments. No-one says nurses shouldn't be paid a whole lot more.

Indeed; it seems to me that little effort was made before criticising the post, which makes total sense to me as both a user and past worker in MH;

a little googling would have done the job.

Don't lets"divide and rule, as in "if there weren't these stupid jobs then nurses could be paid more":

its not an either/or in a post actually critical to being able to target resources towards users and carers (and, I might add, support for MH workers).

I do weary at the "lets jump on the woke accusation bandwagon".

It sounds like jargon to outsiders though, and that makes it a target for the sort of Rod Liddle ish articles that want to attack the NHS

But journalists don't want to get it right, they want to criticise, the NHS needs to watch out for and anticipate these attacks.

it isn't jargon though? I'm a bit worried about the person who has lived experience though who might take the job as it sounds quite stressful!

But if that's the accepted terminology within the field, what were they supposed to call the job?

Maybe journalists and other anti-woke warriors should be advised to do a little simple homework.

All industries have their own terminology and sometimes those involved forget that those outside the industry will not understand what they are talking about.
The role in the advertisement will be understood by the people that might apply for it but someone should have realised what it would sound like to those not in the know and how easily it could be used by journalists as an example of waste within the NHS, as has happened.
They made themselves a target by using jargon.

Volver! You can’t go around using logic! How will people jump to dismissive conclusions?!

What on earth is a brave space?

I didn't know what a "brave space" was either. So I googled it. Now I know. 🤷🏼

Grantanow

Looks like people jump to conclusions from job titles they don't understand. This job has considerable mental health responsibility in part of the NHS which is underfunded. A challenging job.

Grantanow, it comes over as the least knowledgeable saying "What I don't understand must be be ridiculed" and the more knowledgeable asking, reasonably, for an explanation.

I wonder if this helps?

Many organisations in Australia exclusively employ people with lived experience as speakers to guide those who need help. For instance, Roses in the Ocean is a lead organisation representing the lived experience of suicide in Australia. They focus on building a safe and trained Lived Experience Workforce for preventing suicide attempts. SANE Australia is a peer ambassador program to raise awareness around mental illnesses. Next is Suicide Prevention Australia, which has a lived experience panel providing input into suicide prevention services.

If this can help in any area of illness it has to be a good thing, surely. I would very much like to understand it better.

Whitbygal

halfpint1

Mom3

"Lived experience" used to be known as "first hand knowledge".

Thank you for the translation. Not living in the UK means new ways of using words doesn't always come across easily.
'lived experience' sounds very odd

I’ve never heard of “lived experience “ and I live in the UK. The job title and advert description sound like management speak,
"The director will broker psychologically safe environments that allow people to co-produce and become equal partners in their care.
The director will also make "brave spaces" for patients and families to be able to give feedback on the trust.”
What on earth is a brave space?

The Sunday Times said at the weekend “The NHS spends millions on ‘directors of lived experience’. Nurses have the right to be livid.” I thoroughly agree

"Lived experience" is an established concept in the treatment of mental health, of which you presumably have no experience.

Goodness me. The article's by Ron Liddle. I assume that's the article. The one where he says there are no qualifications needed for the role, when the job ad specifies a Masters and evidence of CPD?

I'm not sure he's a reliable source who has any sensible views on the matter at all. I think he's telling porkies.

halfpint1

Mom3

"Lived experience" used to be known as "first hand knowledge".

Thank you for the translation. Not living in the UK means new ways of using words doesn't always come across easily.
'lived experience' sounds very odd

I’ve never heard of “lived experience “ and I live in the UK. The job title and advert description sound like management speak,
"The director will broker psychologically safe environments that allow people to co-produce and become equal partners in their care.
The director will also make "brave spaces" for patients and families to be able to give feedback on the trust.”
What on earth is a brave space?

The Sunday Times said at the weekend “The NHS spends millions on ‘directors of lived experience’. Nurses have the right to be livid.” I thoroughly agree