Sunak asks a homeless man if he works in business

Oh DaisyAnne...

While people with enough money have the option to provide their children with a better education there is no reason for them to care about the inferior education that other children receive.
Does private always mean better?
Do you believe all state education is inferior?
What you imply isn’t just applicable to private schooling. These are state schools.

School A: nice area, good reputation, results are good, parents can afford to subsidise extras, and better off parents can afford to buy/ rent houses locally so child fits location criterion for admission. Class sizes 30. No guarantee of academic ability. Ample TA support. Hardworking, well qualified teachers.
Keen PTA-raises large amounts to support school purchases like technology and help finance educational trips and visitors.
Extra curricular activities provided by staff (free) and outside agencies (paying). Some Pupil Premium money used for support when needed.

School B: OK area, good reputation, results are good, more parents are able/happy to support extras, though there are more parents who struggle. Class sizes 30. No guarantee of academic ability. Sufficient TA support. Hardworking, well qualified teachers.
Keen PTA-raises reasonable amounts to support school needs and help finance educational trips and visitors.
Extra curricular activities provided by staff (free) and outside agencies (paying). More Pupil Premium money used to enable attendance when needed.

School C Run down area, reputation varies, often judgement made on the area rather than the school. Results vary more from cohort to cohort.
More parents with less disposable income so although support for PTA is good, activities raise less money.
Class sizes 30 or fewer children.
Often larger numbers of pupil premium children. Ample TA support.
Hardworking, well qualified teachers.
Extra curricular activities provided by staff (free) and some outside agencies (paying). Some Pupil Premium money used to enable attendance at paying classes but more funding required for in-class support, so less available for that.

Where would you send your child?
How much would you care about the school where you wouldn’t send your child?

Joseanne

I'm not entering ino the left/right discussion, and I haven't seen the Sunak clip.
I do understand that some posters disagree with private education and like to raise the point somewhat frequently. Fair enough, that isnt extremism. But when I read comments on here from posters with no knowledge calling children at independent schools "supercilious gits", or "smug faced Tarquins" then I really find that very extreme and distasteful.
Maybe we all get rattled about things we really care about, but there is no need for irrational rantings.

I don't think anyone has ever said that disagreeing with private education is extremism. How a left-wing government deals with education and the Public/Independent system may be centre-socialism, at the extreme of socialism or may have overtones of communism. It does depend on what they do. Those telling them what they should do may also be simply democratic socialists, extreme socialists or bordering on communism, depending on what they are suggesting.

Up to a point, there is nothing wrong with people holding the more extreme view. If they try and impose those views on others, there may be. Sadly, general experience of extremists - left or right - is that they will try to impose those views on others.

I don't intend that to put down anyone here, btw, because indeed even engaging in these discussions we are here are fairly unusual. Especially in current times when everything seems to impossible to solve, many if not most will retreat to more personal and family circumstances as spaces where you might at least be able to "do something about it"

GrannyGravy13

One persons extremist is another’s freedom fighter…

Not all so called "freedom fighters" have got it right. I think Putin thinks that's what he is, at the moment and so Russia follows.

I know the threads not about this, but trying to pretend that the service provided by fee-paying schools isn't expected to be better that than from a state schooled is risible.

If it's not better, why are people paying for it?

The socialism here ... has no resemblance to the full ideology of communism". Perhaps you would like to define communism so we can discuss why we disagree?

I think perhaps, DaisyAnne that as you are the poster who is continually claiming that people's views on here are verging on, or are, communist, you should give us your definition of communism. Because posters on here are frankly puzzled by this claim.

Mollygro- where you/I/we would send our children is not the issue. The issue is about all children- NO child should have to go to school C- NONE- zero. And this IS a political choice/decision, which has nothing to do with communism.

Well, I had to laugh a few months ago when OH and I met up with some longstanding friends of OH and his family

Their children were privately educated, and they have paid for their grandchildren to be educated too, sending them to the same school (coincidently, the same one that Dominic Cummings attended many years ago).

One of those grandchildren is now so leftwing that they describe him as communist. He's not, of course, but he certainly doesn't share their very right-wing politics, and they are furious about it, bitter even, feeling that they have totally thrown away their money, and very much regretting it.

I said nothing out loud, of course, but internally I was laughing my socks off.

It goes to show that you don't always get what you think you are paying for - though personally, I think that he was probably the more intelligent of their dgc and simply able to think for himself rather than blindly believe whatever he is told, or reads in the Daily Mail, the latter being his grandparents main source of 'information.

I think it is worth mentioning that one of the main reasons for men to end up homeless is that they have been in the care system for whatever reason and it's worth acknowledging that cuts from central government to local authorities to cover care and social care over the last 12 years have had catastrophic outcomes for care leavers and a whole host of other vulnerable peoples. It's disgraceful that people voted for this and continue to do so.

volver

I know the threads not about this, but trying to pretend that the service provided by fee-paying schools isn't expected to be better that than from a state schooled is risible.

If it's not better, why are people paying for it?

Exactly who has said that on this thread volver? Reading their post will help understand what you are being rude about this time.

One of those grandchildren is now so leftwing that they describe him as communist. He's not, of course, but he certainly doesn't share their very right-wing politics, and they are furious about it, bitter even, feeling that they have totally thrown away their money, and very much regretting it.

I think that's very funny, too, Oldnproud. Funny 'ha ha' and funny 'peculiar'. Did they seriously think that the purpose of private education is to turn out a fresh generation of little tories?

Bet the Conservatives have never sold off playing fields belonging to private/public schools the way they did with state schools.

* Oldnproud* - school did their job well, thought them to think! that made me smile. Or the young person you alluded to "reacted against".

Tho they didnt go to one of them, there are many quiet independent schools like Bedale which operate under "alternative" principles child-centred - allowing them to follow their own "Stars" - one just wants the same for all children.

JaneJudge agree, and also of course, the lack of anything resembling decent mental health provision. In my city there are adequate initiatives to get fed, but care - out of reach.

I can assure you they have not- au contraire.

MaizieD

^One of those grandchildren is now so leftwing that they describe him as communist. He's not, of course, but he certainly doesn't share their very right-wing politics, and they are furious about it, bitter even, feeling that they have totally thrown away their money, and very much regretting it.^

I think that's very funny, too, Oldnproud. Funny 'ha ha' and funny 'peculiar'. Did they seriously think that the purpose of private education is to turn out a fresh generation of little tories?

Clearly they did!

Fleurpepper

Mollygro- where you/I/we would send our children is not the issue. The issue is about all children- NO child should have to go to school C- NONE- zero. And this IS a political choice/decision, which has nothing to do with communism.

I've worked at 'School C', Fleurpepper. Schools can't do anything about their catchment area. I can assure you that the well qualified and hard working staff did their damnedest to give the pupils the best education that they could. Supported by an exceptional headteacher.

You may not be able to make a silk purse from a sow's ear, but you can make a very nice leather one...

DaisyAnne

GrannyGravy13

One persons extremist is another’s freedom fighter…

Not all so called "freedom fighters" have got it right. I think Putin thinks that's what he is, at the moment and so Russia follows.

Totally agree

JaneJudge

I think it is worth mentioning that one of the main reasons for men to end up homeless is that they have been in the care system for whatever reason and it's worth acknowledging that cuts from central government to local authorities to cover care and social care over the last 12 years have had catastrophic outcomes for care leavers and a whole host of other vulnerable peoples. It's disgraceful that people voted for this and continue to do so.

You can find statistics that correlate so many childhood issues to later difficulties Jane. As well as homelessness, we see a relationship between the percentage of people unable to read who are in prison. In the end, those who are damaged or deprived in early life so often turn up as part of the most difficult-to-help groups later on.

The cost, both in people's lives and in tax, of not providing proper early years care and a decent education comes back to bite us all, and ruin lives. However, the current government are unlikely to even move towards remedying the problem.

MaizieD

Fleurpepper

Mollygro- where you/I/we would send our children is not the issue. The issue is about all children- NO child should have to go to school C- NONE- zero. And this IS a political choice/decision, which has nothing to do with communism.

I've worked at 'School C', Fleurpepper. Schools can't do anything about their catchment area. I can assure you that the well qualified and hard working staff did their damnedest to give the pupils the best education that they could. Supported by an exceptional headteacher.

You may not be able to make a silk purse from a sow's ear, but you can make a very nice leather one...

Oh, so so agree- and so have I.

The point is, School C should have decent facilities, and suitable class sizes and support- and they do not.

Oldnproud

Well, I had to laugh a few months ago when OH and I met up with some longstanding friends of OH and his family

Their children were privately educated, and they have paid for their grandchildren to be educated too, sending them to the same school (coincidently, the same one that Dominic Cummings attended many years ago).

One of those grandchildren is now so leftwing that they describe him as communist. He's not, of course, but he certainly doesn't share their very right-wing politics, and they are furious about it, bitter even, feeling that they have totally thrown away their money, and very much regretting it.

I said nothing out loud, of course, but internally I was laughing my socks off.

It goes to show that you don't always get what you think you are paying for - though personally, I think that he was probably the more intelligent of their dgc and simply able to think for himself rather than blindly believe whatever he is told, or reads in the Daily Mail, the latter being his grandparents main source of 'information.

Does she know what sort of friend you are? That is really nasty.

The perception that an academic education is why people pay for private schools is just wrong. Many rich people realise that their child will not prosper in the state system and has special needs. They then choose a school where the academic record may not be brilliant but their child will receive the extra help they need and where she will be taught in small groups or as an individual. Meantime of course state schools struggle with large classes and inadequate staffing.

DaisyAnne

Oldnproud

Well, I had to laugh a few months ago when OH and I met up with some longstanding friends of OH and his family

Their children were privately educated, and they have paid for their grandchildren to be educated too, sending them to the same school (coincidently, the same one that Dominic Cummings attended many years ago).

One of those grandchildren is now so leftwing that they describe him as communist. He's not, of course, but he certainly doesn't share their very right-wing politics, and they are furious about it, bitter even, feeling that they have totally thrown away their money, and very much regretting it.

I said nothing out loud, of course, but internally I was laughing my socks off.

It goes to show that you don't always get what you think you are paying for - though personally, I think that he was probably the more intelligent of their dgc and simply able to think for himself rather than blindly believe whatever he is told, or reads in the Daily Mail, the latter being his grandparents main source of 'information.

Does she know what sort of friend you are? That is really nasty.

Did I say they were friends of mine? I don't think so!

So they're paying for something life changing and necessary for their children, that they wouldn't get if they weren't able to pay for it.

I guess that many "poor" people realise that their children won't prosper at State Schools as well, but there's not a lot they can do about it.

volver

So they're paying for something life changing and necessary for their children, that they wouldn't get if they weren't able to pay for it.

I guess that many "poor" people realise that their children won't prosper at State Schools as well, but there's not a lot they can do about it.

Oh yes. It isn't all Eton then Oxford, but if your child has special needs you can pay for special help. There are boarding and day Schools. have a look at "Aurora" www.theauroragroup.co.uk/
Classes of 8 with a teacher and a TA.

One school I taught in I had 30 children, 17 of them were special needs!!!!

It is difficult to find out the fees but it is expensive.