Sunak asks a homeless man if he works in business

While people with enough money have the option to provide their children with a better education there is no reason for them to care about the inferior education that other children receive.
Does private always mean better?
Do you believe all state education is inferior?
What you imply isn’t just applicable to private schooling. These are state schools.

School A: nice area, good reputation, results are good, parents can afford to subsidise extras, and better off parents can afford to buy/ rent houses locally so child fits location criterion for admission. Class sizes 30. No guarantee of academic ability. Ample TA support. Hardworking, well qualified teachers.
Keen PTA-raises large amounts to support school purchases like technology and help finance educational trips and visitors.
Extra curricular activities provided by staff (free) and outside agencies (paying). Some Pupil Premium money used for support when needed.

School B: OK area, good reputation, results are good, more parents are able/happy to support extras, though there are more parents who struggle. Class sizes 30. No guarantee of academic ability. Sufficient TA support. Hardworking, well qualified teachers.
Keen PTA-raises reasonable amounts to support school needs and help finance educational trips and visitors.
Extra curricular activities provided by staff (free) and outside agencies (paying). More Pupil Premium money used to enable attendance when needed.

School C Run down area, reputation varies, often judgement made on the area rather than the school. Results vary more from cohort to cohort.
More parents with less disposable income so although support for PTA is good, activities raise less money.
Class sizes 30 or fewer children.
Often larger numbers of pupil premium children. Ample TA support.
Hardworking, well qualified teachers.
Extra curricular activities provided by staff (free) and some outside agencies (paying). Some Pupil Premium money used to enable attendance at paying classes but more funding required for in-class support, so less available for that.

Where would you send your child?
How much would you care about the school where you wouldn’t send your child?

Oh DaisyAnne...

We're not in general in the UK a society where children are brought up with a real historical or theoretical knowledge of what these terms that get flung about mean. No civics teaching, even. There was a far greater awareness that in society "we're in it together" post WW2 before the Thatcher era (remember, her key view, "there's no such thing as society". And the real start of an attempt to implement "smaller government").

Before her it was accepted for example by many conservatives that nationalised utilities/rail was at least attempting to be "in the best interests of all"and there would have been horror at the very idea of food banks on the scale we see.

So unless you grow upon circumstances where you get a political and historical picture of the different ways of overall governance and different systems, you are bound to see it from an individualistic POV growing up. You dont have to therefore lack caring or perception of how others might suffer or gain, but in terms of "what to do" - or any sort of belief that things can change from what you know - is bound to be limited.

volver

Oh no, I'm crushed. 😢

I'll explain then. I said that private schools shouldn't be allowed - maybe I said something like "they should all be shut down." I still think that. Up the revolution, sisters... ✊🏼

You don't seem to do facts volver I don't think you've actually been reading my posts, have you DaisyAnne? If you're going to throw insults at me, at least try to make them faintly believeable. 😉

Interesting that when Maizie called my opinion into question, you believed you knew what I was thinking. Apparently, I was all my thinking was about you.

I have opinions that were moulded, over a lifetime, by facts, about what constitutes extremist views. Some may agree, and some disagree, but they are my opinions. You did not form them. Neither, from what I have seen of how you think an argument works, are you likely to change them.

My comments were not about your posts but generally about how I see extremism and extremists.

Wyllow3

There are no "extremists" on this thread imo just a wide variety of views. The socialism here certainly has no resemblance to the full ideology of communism and I'm aware there are those who back the current government but they are not right wing extremists.

I disagree Wyllow. I think there are both those with extreme views and extremists on this forum.

The socialism here ... has no resemblance to the full ideology of communism". Perhaps you would like to define communism so we can discuss why we disagree?

Also, how can someone whose beliefs are nativist, ultra nationalist and authoritarian not be seen as right wing extremist? We have people supporting these views on here.

volver

Of course its a publicity "stunt".

As I said above, why would anyone think otherwise? Does anybody really think that Sunak was volunteering at a homeless centre and there just happened to be cameras there?

What about when Johnson went to primary schools? Or any of the rest of it? They're doing it for the publicity. 🤷🏼

As for "it was a set up, there's nobody there..." I can see about half a dozen people there eating breakfast.

volver There were estimated to be about 650 people sleeping rough in London in 2021 And only 6 of them were there for breakfast?? The security guard checks one person who comes in.
The difference between this and a primary school visit is I suppose that you can't shut most of the children out of the school (although I acknowledge that the really naughty ones will be kept out of sight).

But then as a PR stunt it went completely wrong-so not even a good one!!!

MayBee70

I’d be ok with private schools if other schools had smaller class sizes and weren’t consistently underfunded. While people with enough money have the option to provide their children with a better education there is no reason for them to care about the inferior education that other children receive.

Not the point of this thread- but yes, same for health care. As we know, sadly, that when the 'elites' have the choice to use alternatives, they just stop to care- and allow both to disintegrate.

MaizieD

^Extremists would be those who believe and proselytise a type of socialism that verges on or is communism.^

So we don't have any left wing extremists on GNet. That's a relief...

OTOH I think we have a few neo-fascists.

Thanks for putting it so succintly. That was perhaps the most ridiculous post on EF, ever.

I’d be ok with private schools if other schools had smaller class sizes and weren’t consistently underfunded. While people with enough money have the option to provide their children with a better education there is no reason for them to care about the inferior education that other children receive.

I'm not entering ino the left/right discussion, and I haven't seen the Sunak clip.
I do understand that some posters disagree with private education and like to raise the point somewhat frequently. Fair enough, that isnt extremism. But when I read comments on here from posters with no knowledge calling children at independent schools "supercilious gits", or "smug faced Tarquins" then I really find that very extreme and distasteful.
Maybe we all get rattled about things we really care about, but there is no need for irrational rantings.

There are no "extremists" on this thread imo just a wide variety of views. The socialism here certainly has no resemblance to the full ideology of communism and I'm aware there are those who back the current government but they are not right wing extremists.

Oh no, I'm crushed. 😢

I'll explain then. I said that private schools shouldn't be allowed - maybe I said something like "they should all be shut down." I still think that. Up the revolution, sisters... ✊🏼

You don't seem to do facts volver I don't think you've actually been reading my posts, have you DaisyAnne? If you're going to throw insults at me, at least try to make them faintly believeable. 😉

volver

If I remember correctly I'm an "extremist" because I don't believe people should be able to gain advantage in life by using private schooling.

Off to the gulag with me...

Well ... no. You don't seem to do facts volver, and now you have added a faulty memory to your challenges. If someone else asks I will explain but I am not longer going to pander to your need to be the centre of the conversation.

DaisyAnne

Dickens

DaisyAnne

I am not "us" Dickens. I would feel slightly worried about anyone who thinks they are.

The strangers reference was about people on GN. Do you really think anyone will influence the extremists on here? I just keep trying to give a reasoned reply while not tolerating the most extreme comments. They are my replies. I am not trying to influence anyone. On a really good day I will learn something worth knowing and that makes these threads worth-while.

... "us" - as in those of us who want a competent and (with luck) a compassionately fiscally responsible government. My mistake then to assume you were one of the like-minded individuals. I think there are a few of us who wish that (maybe a minority, I've no idea) - but I'm not sure why it should be a 'worry'. However, you don't have to explain to anyone, obviously. I'll just puzzle over it for a few minutes more.

Neither am I sure who the extremists are on here. I'll have to read the comments again!

It's perhaps worth remembering that my extremists may not be your extremists Dickens. To me, those making extreme comments will be the people who back an ideology whatever the truth of the situation.

Extremists would be those who believe and proselytise a type of socialism that verges on or is communism. On the other hand, I would also see as extremist, those who believe and proselytise a form of conservatism that is authoritarian, nativist and verges on or is neo-fascism.

Oh, and I still don't see myself as an "us". If people think you are part of a group they adhere to, they get very upset with you if you ever say you hold a different opinion to theirs. It's not worth it.

Can I ask what you consider to be left-wing extremism?

Do you think anyone on this thread is opining extreme views - or are you referring to GN in general?

I ask, because I am genuinely curious - it's not a 'trick' question!

... and the reason I am interested is partly because I've just come off a social media site where more than one person has condemned Rishi Sunak because they believe he's a socialist stooge in the Tory party. Which I'm struggling with a bit!

Obviously, perceptions vary, but historically and ideologically there are quite distinct divisions between communism, socialism and conservatism. Having a 'left-wing bias' is open to interpretation, but leaning towards an ideology doesn't normally indicate extremism - does it?

volver has said that she doesn't believe those who've had the privilege of private schooling should gain advantages over those who haven't. Is that extremism - in your view? Your OP indicates (unless I'm missing something) a sympathy with disadvantaged people. If we're ever going to have a more equitable society, then that is an 'issue' that would have to be looked at, at least. Power is in the hands of those who have wealth, basically, and if we never examine that premise, then nothing will ever change.

... is that what you interpret as 'communism'? Is it - extremism? Or am I barking up the wrong tree and you're not really interested in change but just want to point out the failings and hypocrisy of politicians like Sunak? If so - well, you'll probably never run out of material...

Of course its a publicity "stunt".

As I said above, why would anyone think otherwise? Does anybody really think that Sunak was volunteering at a homeless centre and there just happened to be cameras there?

What about when Johnson went to primary schools? Or any of the rest of it? They're doing it for the publicity. 🤷🏼

As for "it was a set up, there's nobody there..." I can see about half a dozen people there eating breakfast.

It sounds as if the event was more benign than first portrayed, but I cant help feeling it was another publicity stunt.

As a genuine caring act would be done outside of press scrutiny.

...and I do weary of politicians of any persuasion who "use" these encounters.

No, I don't want to examine my own bias, DaisyAnne. When you specifically say that their type of socialism is, or verges on, communism, then I use my historical knowledge to tell me that no-one has ever expressed such views on threads I've read.

OTOH, authoritarianism, 'othering' sections of society, conformity to 'rules' etc. is easy to spot; I think because it seems to come more naturally to people.

If I remember correctly I'm an "extremist" because I don't believe people should be able to gain advantage in life by using private schooling.

Off to the gulag with me...

One persons extremist is another’s freedom fighter…

Maizie, whether we do or not was not the point. My post, in reply to Dickens post, was about who I would term extremists and we most certainly do, from my point of view, have some who come under both my descriptions.

However, you are perfectly entitled to your opinion. Although you might want to question your own bias as you see extremists only on the right but not on the left. They are there; you are just choosing not to see it. But then, we all have to work hard not to do that.

Extremists would be those who believe and proselytise a type of socialism that verges on or is communism.

So we don't have any left wing extremists on GNet. That's a relief...

OTOH I think we have a few neo-fascists.

Dickens

DaisyAnne

I am not "us" Dickens. I would feel slightly worried about anyone who thinks they are.

The strangers reference was about people on GN. Do you really think anyone will influence the extremists on here? I just keep trying to give a reasoned reply while not tolerating the most extreme comments. They are my replies. I am not trying to influence anyone. On a really good day I will learn something worth knowing and that makes these threads worth-while.

... "us" - as in those of us who want a competent and (with luck) a compassionately fiscally responsible government. My mistake then to assume you were one of the like-minded individuals. I think there are a few of us who wish that (maybe a minority, I've no idea) - but I'm not sure why it should be a 'worry'. However, you don't have to explain to anyone, obviously. I'll just puzzle over it for a few minutes more.

Neither am I sure who the extremists are on here. I'll have to read the comments again!

It's perhaps worth remembering that my extremists may not be your extremists Dickens. To me, those making extreme comments will be the people who back an ideology whatever the truth of the situation.

Extremists would be those who believe and proselytise a type of socialism that verges on or is communism. On the other hand, I would also see as extremist, those who believe and proselytise a form of conservatism that is authoritarian, nativist and verges on or is neo-fascism.

Oh, and I still don't see myself as an "us". If people think you are part of a group they adhere to, they get very upset with you if you ever say you hold a different opinion to theirs. It's not worth it.

DaisyAnne

I am not "us" Dickens. I would feel slightly worried about anyone who thinks they are.

The strangers reference was about people on GN. Do you really think anyone will influence the extremists on here? I just keep trying to give a reasoned reply while not tolerating the most extreme comments. They are my replies. I am not trying to influence anyone. On a really good day I will learn something worth knowing and that makes these threads worth-while.

... "us" - as in those of us who want a competent and (with luck) a compassionately fiscally responsible government. My mistake then to assume you were one of the like-minded individuals. I think there are a few of us who wish that (maybe a minority, I've no idea) - but I'm not sure why it should be a 'worry'. However, you don't have to explain to anyone, obviously. I'll just puzzle over it for a few minutes more.

Neither am I sure who the extremists are on here. I'll have to read the comments again!

One really good thing came out of it Glorianny; Dean got a very good breakfast

Of course it's a PR "stunt". Surely nobody thinks otherwise?