The Tories are in sight of their goal aren’t they?

Hear hear, Mamissimo!

Whitewavemark2

We should look to Europe and not USA as the model

If we have to change the system, and we might have to, I agree that we should definitely look to Europe and keep the NHS, however funded, free at the point of use. I understand that the USA has the worst health statistics of any developed country. The thought of people being turned away for treatment because they can't pay or aren't insured is horrific.

I think it needs to be reworked as a truly National health service with no more local variations so that health discrimination can end. When it was set up there were few drugs and a lot less people.

Social care should be part of it......for everyone......

And we all need to wake up and pay far, far more national insurance to pay for it. As a nation we need to pay enough to balance the books to provide the services we need now and will want in the future.

There is no cheap solution!

No.
I mean an overhaul of the NHS and what exactly it spends the money on, and putting on ice the things that they would like to do and providing a good, not basic, service for the bread and butter of hospitals, which are for really ill people and surgery.There would also need to be more of everything,
Including hospitals and staff.This all takes money and NI would have to go up.I bet other countries pay more in order to have a good level of service.
This is just an idea and how it would work in practise I don’t know.I think it’s probably too late tbh to save the NHS in it’s present form.Since that form is so bloody awful for patients and for staff maybe it should go.

I'm with them Whitewavemark2 but we need the how's, the when's, and the fundings.

At this stage they concentrated on increasing the numbers of medical staff: I agree we need more clarity on the big picture: its being discussed.

The Green Party have pledged to reverse all NHS privatisation & completely renationalise our NHS.

If we had a form of PR, I would vote for the Greens.

Whitewave2 not just here right now, just seen this on a French Facebook site I’m on.

Just watched a report on French news. Hospital emergency services are in crisis with some hospitals having to leave patients in the corridors. A hospital in Strasbourg have said its worse than during Covid and they are overwhelmed. Influenza Covid and Bronchial problems are rife. People are asked to téléphone 15 for advice rather than turning up at emergecies. Stay safe ladies and remember antibiotics will not treat a virus. Your pharmacy can also give advice...on this note A healthy, peaceful and happy New Year to you all xxx

Well put taxes up then Oreo.

As regards the Labour Party and privatisation, they will inherit a system that is part public and buys into private care. They won't be able to reverse this for a long time given the lack of resources now purely int he public sector. But as a L party member I know no one who wants to move towards further privatisation and my Labour MP certainly doesn't.

Here is the 10 year plan laid out by the Labour Party.
Read its focus yourself.

labour.org.uk/press/labour-to-deliver-10-year-plan-for-change-and-modernisation-of-the-nhs/

The NHS is only "broken" because it's been a deliberate choice and has been starved of resources.

The country could choose to fund it properly - although I suspect the ones who can afford to pay for themselves won't like having to fund other people too.

In any case, it wouldn't require eyewatering amounts of funding because salaries would be taxed and go straight back to the Treasury.

Oreo

Ilovecheese

Another yes from me. But I am not convinced that even if Labour win the next election that they will prevent privatisation from happening, although they might pretend that it can't be helped.

I don't think they will be pretending I think in the end some form of privatisation will be the only solution.
The NHS is now broken and at times like a third world country.
It’s either privatisation or putting up taxes as well as earmarking more money for it, new hospitals, far more staff and making use of priorities.That means prioritising ill patients and less for anything else fancier.

Do you mean providing a very basic system with anything not life-threatening, such as hip operations, only for those who can pay?

We should look to Europe and not USA as the model

If not a NHS why not a not for profit insurance system, with guaranteed care for those unable to pay, and no government interference?

There must not be a tiered level of care either.

Whitewavemark2

Glorianny

This is a great website and organisation - "Every Doctor".
There's a map showing where services have been privatised. Unfortunately it makes me fear we can never reverse this trend. Have a look and see what you think.
www.everydoctor.org.uk/nhs-privatisation-map

Well we completely reversed a private health care system to a national one in 1947, so it is totally possible.

It is all about the political will.

“As an aside

Westminster voting intention:

LAB: 45% (-1)
CON: 19% (-3)
GRN: 9% (+3)
LDEM: 8% (-)
REF: 8% (-)”

We did Whitewavemark2 but there were committed Labour politicians and even a few Tories with morals.
Now I fear we only have MPs with vested interests, a lot of ambivalent MPs and a few who entirely oppose privatisation. I wonder what we could do to change that.
I also wonder if the complicated nature of the services privatised would make things much less easy than with the small hospitals and GPs in 1947.

Ilovecheese

Another yes from me. But I am not convinced that even if Labour win the next election that they will prevent privatisation from happening, although they might pretend that it can't be helped.

I don't think they will be pretending I think in the end some form of privatisation will be the only solution.
The NHS is now broken and at times like a third world country.
It’s either privatisation or putting up taxes as well as earmarking more money for it, new hospitals, far more staff and making use of priorities.That means prioritising ill patients and less for anything else fancier.

Whitewavemark2

👀

Rachel Clarke

@doctor_oxford
·
32m
In 14 years as a doctor I’ve never known such horrific conditions. Patients dying on trolleys with zero dignity. Or screaming & moaning in corridors. Dickensian overcrowding, total implosion. Despair. Weeping staff. Abject misery.

A powerful image and a true one.
Have seen this with my own eyes.
Add in turning away patients including children who should be admitted for lack of space and beds and not being able to find antibiotics for prescriptions from A&E.
Many many hours waiting to be seen sitting on a hard chair with no food or drink.

Glorianny

This is a great website and organisation - "Every Doctor".
There's a map showing where services have been privatised. Unfortunately it makes me fear we can never reverse this trend. Have a look and see what you think.
www.everydoctor.org.uk/nhs-privatisation-map

Well we completely reversed a private health care system to a national one in 1947, so it is totally possible.

It is all about the political will.

“As an aside

Westminster voting intention:

LAB: 45% (-1)
CON: 19% (-3)
GRN: 9% (+3)
LDEM: 8% (-)
REF: 8% (-)”

Not sure that's a Banksy.

This is a great website and organisation - "Every Doctor".
There's a map showing where services have been privatised. Unfortunately it makes me fear we can never reverse this trend. Have a look and see what you think.
www.everydoctor.org.uk/nhs-privatisation-map

Well whitewave we are having the conversation. How do we widen it, involve the mp’s and the public

There should at least a national conversation about what we want.

Ilovecheese

The names of M.P.s with links to or donations from private health providers is something I would also like to see Glorianny

Yes, so would I.

And many of the 'public' have been bought with backhanders in the form of operations in the private sector.

The names of M.P.s with links to or donations from private health providers is something I would also like to see Glorianny

I often wonder what has to happen to get us storming parliament
Criticise labour and the other opposition parties but focus anger on the years of Tory misrule
We need the barstewards out. That has to be the aim

That’s a powerful image.