Keir Starmer, yearly review

Galaxy

I have read the report, I am questioning the wisdom of those who continually bringing up the issue of those who vote leave with a tone of weary contempt. I am a remainer and centre left. It just makes me wince when people do it. I

I don’t disagree with that Galaxy. We are where we are, and the Labour leadership have accepted that and are finding a way forward, there’s no point at all in a pitch battle now between the yes and no factions on Gransnet, it’s like Groundhog Day every time.
All I was trying to say was that the Rowntree report is accurate, if only people would read it instead of reacting on one element which isn’t taken in isolation in the report.

Galaxy Nobody is making any sweeping statements about anybody. The report is an accurate assessment of the people who voted for Brexit. That's all!

growstuff

Galaxy Nobody is making any sweeping statements about anybody. The report is an accurate assessment of the people who voted for Brexit. That's all!

Precisely.

No need to get upset about facts.

“I would say those who do it tend to be those who have very little contact with those who think differently to themselves.”

I know a lot of friends who voted leave and dont hold any in contempt, they believed what they were told. In general they had more right wing views than myself, most were on modest wages but some high earners.

They believed we would be able to “cherry pick” a deal and come out on top, I was pretty sure we would not.

It's hardly surprising that the Leave campaign was so successful considering the much hyped and leveraged benefits it promoted. Disregarding the big red bus and that £350 million - which wasn't really a promise was it, more a 'look-what-we-could-do-with-all-that-money'...
There was also the reassuring "Absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the Single Market” from the so-called "godfather" of Brexit, Tory MEP, Daniel Hannan who, presumably, knew his onions.
The single market - with regulations set and enforced in Brussels - did restrict us acting more sprightly in certain sectors where our trade dealings with the US or Asia were more important than Europe. If truth be told. And then there was the push for monetary union.
In short, the benefits outweighed the disadvantages - what was not to like?
It's rather ironic though that we have 'ancestral' rights in the creation of the Single Market, which is now a very definite 'No-No'.

Maybe this influenced the vote for Brexit? I can't believe that all Leave voters simply had a gut reaction and didn't see the perceived benefits - and vote for them.

I'm being the devil's advocate here. I've just looked at the historical reference to the advocatus diaboli - it was an official position within the Catholic Church, the Promoter of the Faith, one who "argued against the canonization (sainthood) of a candidate in order to uncover any character flaws or misrepresentation of the evidence favouring canonization"... or the verification of a miracle.

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volver

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£190 is a good days wages, there are Nigel’s everywhere but you can’t cure stupid.

I am not upset I just think it's a terrible strategy politically, I am not upset about the report, I think the contempt shown by many posters towards leave voters in this discussion is counter productive and I am glad Starmer seems to understand the necessity of bringing those voters back to labour.

I'm not a leader of any political party. I'm sure many of you are cheering at this point.🤣 So I don't have to sell out my principles or pander to those who voted to leave.

It was a stupid decision and they have ruined the country. I'll never stop being contemptuous.

Yes I imagine so.

Galaxy

Makes me wince and become inarticulate. Its just such a counter productive strategy. I say this as a remainer and on the centre left. If we are making sweeping statements about people, I would say those who do it tend to be those who have very little contact with those who think differently to themselves.

Am in full agreement with you there.
I voted to remain after careful thought but could see why so many voted to leave.In any case, their vote to cast as they wanted.
Education is great, but many people are intelligent without having stayed on at school to pass exams.
We are where we are, and if Starmer accepts that, as he seems to and tries to get the best out of life outside the EU, then good on ‘im.

The referendum was about issues more complicated than the UK's economic relationship with the EU. It was a proxy for a clash of cultures. UKIP and Vote Leave understood that.

I'm not going to apologise for thinking that the UK committed a collective act of self-harm and I doubt very much whether the country will recover during my lifetime.

A Clash of Cultures, yes.

The mindset in Europe is different, almost the whole of Continental Europe was occupied in WW2, the UK did not experience the horrors of that, EU was set up to prevent that ever happening again by cooperating, the rich countries helping the poorer ones develop. They have welcomed most of Eastern Europe and several others are on the waiting list, even independant Switzerland has cooperation agreements with EU.

They have a set of rules that all 27 have to follow, why leavers thought they would change to rules to give the UK an advantage (cherry pick) I have no idea.

I also think there's a clash of cultures within the UK - between people who have benefited from a more open economy and society and those who have seen their situation get worse and yearned for the past. IMO the UK itself has been responsible for the gap, but there were people who blamed the EU for the situation. The referendum was an opportunity to put two fingers up at a government which was ignoring its people - at least that was the feeling which UKIP encouraged.

Wes Streeting isn’t being original he wants to get rid of GPs same as conservatives. He has blocked GP Bob Gill from reading his tweets. On video Dr Bob Gill explains what’s happening.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=UFTIUeZRheY

Grany, do you consider Angela Rayner to be a turncoat after the interview this week?

Didn’t see it Casdon What’s it about?

No, Streeting does not want to get rid of GPs. He has suggested that they become salaried and directly employed by the NHS, instead of the current partnership model. It's becoming increasingly difficult to find doctors willing to be GP partners anyway and a number are already just handing their contracts back. At least if GPs are directly employed by the NHS, it will be more difficult for private providers to take over partnerships.

Streeting has also suggested direct access to some consultants, rather than GPs acting as "gatekeepers". This model works in Germany and some other countries and is worth investigating, as it would save time and GPs' time. I have a personal interest, as my cancer treatment would have started six months earlier, if I'd been able to refer myself directly to the breast cancer unit when I knew I had symptoms, rather than being dismissed by my GP.

I also think Streeting is right that pharmacists could prescribe a limited range of drugs, rather than patients having to wait weeks for a GP appointment.

There's a big difference between Streeting and the Conservatives.

Grany

Didn’t see it Casdon What’s it about?

This one.
news.sky.com/story/principles-would-not-have-fed-me-angela-rayner-says-she-has-to-compromise-to-win-power-12783700

I read the piece about Wes Streeting and think he talks a lot of sense.

Well I prefer to listen to GP Dr Bob Gill Have you listened to video about what’s happening to the NHS directly from the horses mouth as it were? If you did it’s plain that Streeting and Starmer are serving private interests not the NHS

Casdon

Grany

Didn’t see it Casdon What’s it about?

This one.
news.sky.com/story/principles-would-not-have-fed-me-angela-rayner-says-she-has-to-compromise-to-win-power-12783700

I don’t think much of the Labour Party at the moment under Starmer and the rest of them. Starmer is a liar.

Grany

Well I prefer to listen to GP Dr Bob Gill Have you listened to video about what’s happening to the NHS directly from the horses mouth as it were? If you did it’s plain that Streeting and Starmer are serving private interests not the NHS

Having worked in the NHS myself for over 40 years, and with lots of contacts, including GPs, who still do, I know what’s happening in the NHS without Dr Bob Steele telling me his view. I don’t actually know anybody who shares his views, to a man (and woman) everybody in NHS who I do know is praying hard for a Labour Government.

Grany

Casdon

Grany

Didn’t see it Casdon What’s it about?

This one.
news.sky.com/story/principles-would-not-have-fed-me-angela-rayner-says-she-has-to-compromise-to-win-power-12783700

I don’t think much of the Labour Party at the moment under Starmer and the rest of them. Starmer is a liar.

I was asking specifically what you thought of Angela Rayner’s interview though Grany, I already know what you think about Starmer and Streeting?

Yes we have to get rid of the Tory government Labour will be slightly better, they will privatise NHS like the tories, putting private interests before public NHS.