Is it OK to break the law if you are a Tory?

That was for ronib

🤦🏼

The extent of your knowledge amazes me fp. There’s absolutely no point in my engaging further. Your mind is made up and closed.

volver

I'm sorry, I know I'm in no position to laugh, but when the arguments are "You hate the rich" and "Tax Inspectors are really busy so they don't need more work", I don't think those are valid arguments.

Scotland has its own tax inspectors. The English ones are really over worked.

Germanshepherdsmum

Avoidance is not illegal fp. And how on earth would you know about any caveat given by anyone’s advisers? This is pure supposition driven by hatred of a political party and of people who are rich.

NO this just won't wash. If it was simple and 'honest' (!) avoidance, why would he pay up as soon as found out. If there was legally no tax to pay, why would he pay it to quash the case, rather than come clean and explain to us all?

Stop this jealousy nonsense. You have NO idea!

If it is just so simple to pay up if and when found out- then I am pretty sure (in fact I KNOW) that it is the advice given. Try it, you will probably get away with it. If get caught, hands up quick and pay, problem solved. And then we will blame any short-fall on the NHS costs and the poor, in the gutter Press we own (directly or indirectly).

Whitewavemark2 disagree. But what about those individuals who are seeking political power and are using the Zahawi case to a political end?

It has been enshrined in tax law for many years that everyone is entitled to arrange their tax affairs in the most advantageous way they can, within the law. Not within ‘the spirit of the law’. Anyone can imagine what the spirit of the law might be, to suit their own agenda. What matters is the letter of the law.

I'm sorry, I know I'm in no position to laugh, but when the arguments are "You hate the rich" and "Tax Inspectors are really busy so they don't need more work", I don't think those are valid arguments.

Germanshepherdsmum

Avoidance is not illegal fp. And how on earth would you know about any caveat given by anyone’s advisers? This is pure supposition driven by hatred of a political party and of people who are rich.

The spirit of the law is not being adhered to though is it? And as a legislator those not following “the spirit of the law” should imo forfeit their position - particularly as minister of the crown

Do you advocate the public airing of tax returns? I think it’s hard enough to contact Inland Revenue as it is without adding yet another layer of public scrutiny to their work load.

All I know is that it’s difficult to keep up to date with the latest tax laws and I think as a retired Tax Inspector even you might be challenged.

Avoidance is not illegal fp. And how on earth would you know about any caveat given by anyone’s advisers? This is pure supposition driven by hatred of a political party and of people who are rich.

I think Zahawi should be investigated for possible criminal behaviour by HMRC and reference made to the CPS. It is disturbing that so many MPs seem to require disciplinary action for a variety of offences. Of course the ultimate responsibility for drawing up the tax rules rests with the government of the day and Parliament and any loopholes are their responsibility, not the taxpayer's. One wonders why there are so many off shore tax havens when access could be closed down

It was on the bbc this morning

Absolutely MaisieD

How can we trust a system where the VERY rich are advised by Financial Advisors to do 'xyz' to avoid millions of taxes, with the proviso that 'don't worry, if you get caught, you can just pay it and that will be it!'

Germanshepherdsmum

If he is paying all the tax due, and we have no evidence of tax evasion, what is the problem? Assumptions which suit some agendas have been made. As a lawyer I was trained to have an open mind and look for admissible evidence.

The problem is that the tax was due- and that he tried to avoid it, whatever you call it. He is only paying now because he has been found out. THAT is the BIG problem.

ronib

Whitewavemark2 I place my trust firmly in the camp of Inland Revenue over Tax Policy Associates. I cannot imagine for one moment that Inland Revenue would not have gone over the details very carefully.

Even if we did have access to the information I doubt, as non professionals we would be any the wiser.

Oh dear, of course I can’t use/second guess the HMRC case, and as a retired tax inspector neither will I.

I quoted the above to give people a flavour of the sort of questions one needs answers to. Of course far more evidence is used in the final decision/agreement.

GSM says . It isn’t a crime to want to amass wealth..

No, it's not a crime in our state and in many others, but there's a helluva discussion implicit in this as to the purpose of 'money', how it should be distributed, what the function of the state, which creates the 'money' should be, even the 'meaning of life' ...

But it's not a discussion that people have much interest in having.

Whitewavemark2 I place my trust firmly in the camp of Inland Revenue over Tax Policy Associates. I cannot imagine for one moment that Inland Revenue would not have gone over the details very carefully.

Even if we did have access to the information I doubt, as non professionals we would be any the wiser.

Well then let’s look at the questions that HMRC will be asking shall we?

1. Why did Zahawi initially give a provably false explanation for the Balshore shares, that his father provided startup capital.

2. Why did Zahawi subsequently give a second, different, explanation, that his father provided valuable advice in exchange for the shares? And why is it so contrary to common-sense, usual practice, and the evidence?

3. If Zahawi’s second explanation is true, why was no VAT paid on the valuable services provided by his father to him?

4. Why did Zahawi deny that he benefited from the trust, when we know that he did?

5. Was this a tax avoidance scheme? If not, what was going on?

6. When a UK person receives a gift from a trust, that is normally taxable. Did Zahawi pay UK tax on the gift from the trust? If not, why not?

7. Zahawi says he took a loan from a Gibraltar company. He should have paid (“withheld”) UK tax on his interest payments. Did he?

8. Why is that same loan not recorded in the Gibraltar company accounts?

9. Zahawi has taken a series of loans from offshore companies. Were these funded from dividends and gains on the Balshore shares? If they were, did Zahawi pay UK tax on this?

For further in depth information look at Tax Policy Associates.

If Zahawi has nothing to hide, I suggest he makes his tax affairs as transparent as possible to show that he indeed is paying all tax due in the U.K.

Are you allowed to bash the basher who made a very significant amount as a tax lawyer ? Obviously paying all taxes but without publication of course.

What I conclude is that when any high profile political figure is involved in a discussion about tax then Inland Revenue will act faster than usual to mitigate any political fallout. It might be damage limitation to the reputation of the person involved. I don’t know that it’s wise to demand the publication of tax decisions and payments. It wouldn’t stop with politicians and it might embarrass if applied across the board.

If he is paying all the tax due, and we have no evidence of tax evasion, what is the problem? Assumptions which suit some agendas have been made. As a lawyer I was trained to have an open mind and look for admissible evidence.

Germanshepherdsmum

I don’t know what you mean Fp. The post was about wealth addiction. I was not addicted but of course some people are. It isn’t a crime to want to amass wealth. It is nothing to do with closing eyes to wrongdoing. You only aid and abet if you knowingly assist someone to commit a criminal offence. I hope this isn’t turning into bashing highly paid professionals who do not engage in criminality, simply because they are high earners.

Not in my case, it isn't.

ronib

Whitewavemark2 my brother was a very experienced inspector of taxes and he wasn’t corrupt.. so does the comment it all stinks apply across the board? Does it stink? Or are you, along with most on this forum not in possession of the full facts? It’s so easy for the movers and shakers to really spin it.

So it should be easy for Zahawi to give the public the full facts and then we can all forget about it!