Woman found guilty of raping two women. Remanded in custody for sentence end February

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-64444530

There is to be a pause on transgender criminals with a history of violence being placed in Scottish jails.

Common sense prevails, for now at least.

varian

One of my grand-daughters has a friend who used to be a girl called Rosie, but is now a "non-binary person" called Robin (good name for someone who is not sure where they belong - could be a girl or a boy)

My grand-daughter and her friends have no problem with Rosie now being Robin and neither do the teachers who call out "Robin" when they take the register and they all use the pronoum "they".

My grand-daughter, when she explained all this to me, could obviously not see why I was even asking questions about this change in her school-friend which she just accepts as a normal choice.

That's the feed-back I got from my niece, varian, when I was collecting opinions and information for a meeting on trans issues. she's the heaHteacher of a very large comprehensive in the South-West of England, and what you report is ore or less exactly what she said. which is that a lot of young pole know far more than many of the teachers about the issues, that there is a high degree of acceptance of tans or gay students.

* [Paragraph removed by GNHQ at poster's request]

Some of the teenagers do write things like "non binary" on forms and no big thing is made of it, because it's hard to tell who is serious and who is experimenting with being what they consider "transgressive".

As individual pupils, the teachers doors are open should a student need to discuss matters and referrals made. they do NOT "teach" trans - its out there already.

It is common sense and to be welcomed. However with every clarification they are showing clearly the daftness of the mantra "TWAW no debate". To quote from the link you shared Doodledog

As the first minister pointed out last week, we must not allow any suggestion to take root that trans women pose an inherent threat to women. but the next quote is
Predatory men are the risk to women. However, as with any group in society, a small number of trans women will offend and be sent to prison.

So is Keith Brown stripping violent transwomen of their women status? If a small number of transwomen are predatory men, doesn't if follow that the rest of the transwomen are non-predatory men?

I'm not sure what any of this has to do with a violent rapist who now claims to be a woman and a victim.

S/he has been taking hormones and told the court s/he wants ‘all the surgery the nhs can give’.

I hope, despite the long NHS waiting lists at this time, that his wish will be granted asap.

I think this will open the debate further, I cant imagine how you can justify stopping men going into female prisons but allow men into refuges etc.

Galaxy - it’s impossible to have a blanket policy of allowing men into refuges. The only sexual offence that took place in a hostel I worked in was by a transwoman who’d been looking after a 4 year old boy while his mum was at court. There were staff on duty at the time but they weren’t aware s/he was in a quiet tv room away from sight.

Let's hope it's a permanent pause!

Galaxy

I think this will open the debate further, I cant imagine how you can justify stopping men going into female prisons but allow men into refuges etc.

Agreed. How can it be policy to protect women from men in prison but not in hospitals and other environments? From there it is a short step to changing rooms and loos.

That would be the reset needed to discuss the options, and actually listen to women for a change.

Wyllow. If your niece is Head of a large comprehensive she should not be discussing confidential personal details of pupils in her school with you, when you were 'collecting opinions and information for a meeting on trans issues.'

We specifically discussed what she felt me OK sharing and not sharing eazybee and we decided I could disclose that much: no possilbity of Id'ing but a very significant example.

I was happy to be guided by her decision.

It is not up to you or to her to decide what information 'she felt OK with me sharing'. Should the parents discover this they will have a serious cause for complaint, particularly as you have posted about it on social media.

Agreed, easybee.

I think it's a given that children and young people know a lot about trans issues. The question is where from? They have to hear them from adults, and as schools tend to have policies devised by Stonewall, the things that children hear there will be from staff who have been trained in those views.

My niece is eight, and she was telling her mother about how some people are born in the wrong body and want to be boys instead of girls, recently. She hadn't heard that at home - she lives with her mum, and the subject hasn't come up - so it has to have been at school.

It was presented as fact - not 'some people think that they are in the wrong body, or have been told that they are in the wrong body, but that they are. That sounds pretty one-sided to me. And quite likely to put ideas into children's heads.

and as schools tend to have policies devised by Stonewall, the things that children hear there will be from staff who have been trained in those views.

Evidence, please, that this is policy, it most certainly is not in the school mentioned nor LA as it was a specific question I asked.

A friend's grandchild told her parents she was non-binary (non-bio was how she put it) because her teacher told her if she loved girls that was OK and she loved boys that was OK and if she loved both that was OK as well and she was non-binary. As she loved her best friends (female) and she also loved her brother and male cousins, she was obviously non-binary.
Rather too young for this.

She is nine, and clearly confused.

I don't have evidence for particular schools - why would I? I'm not an educationalist or an investigative journalist or anything similar . I'm chatting online.

But here you go - from the Stonewall website (very easily googled if you want to find evidence yourself ) :

We are incredibly proud of our education programmes, which were set up in 2004 to give practical support to teachers following the end of the Section 28. We now work with primary schools, secondary schools, special schools, colleges, multi academy trusts, and local authority children and young people’s services.

Our programmes give guidance, support and resources to organisations in England, Scotland and Wales on supporting LGBTQ+ children and young people in inclusive education, tackling bullying, meeting their safeguarding responsibilities and their responsibilities under the Equality Act 2010. We also provide support and tools for organisations to improve their practice beyond the legal minimum, to ensure that they are creating a culture where all LGBTQ+ children and young people can thrive, and where LGBTQ+ families are recognised and respected.

and here are some examples (same source):

www.stonewall.org.uk/category/education-resources

Doodledog

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-64444530

There is to be a pause on transgender criminals with a history of violence being placed in Scottish jails.

Common sense prevails, for now at least.

.

There should be no transwomen i.e. men in women's prisons, history of violence or not.

Here's a great interview with Kate Coleman of Keep Prisons Single Sex :

youtu.be/SYl-pTEl_3E (15 mins)

There’s that disturbing “wrong body” propaganda again, Doodledog. I don’t believe any child ever came up with that concept by themselves. Why on earth would they?

Yes, Delila, and it's telling that they all use the same phrases, isn't it?

Schools are very wary of those sources of information now:

I think teenagers are more likely to get their information from films like Heartstoppers and others on Netflix.

Schools are very wary of those sources of information now

Do you have evidence of that? . And why might that be, I wonder?

Sorry maybe that wasn't clear.

I meant why might they be very wary of Stonewall?

Because questions raised on inadequacy of balanced picure.
Not that they have no relevance but are not overall pattern to be adopted.

Has this individual been mentioned?
Tiffany Scott
www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/transgender-prison-row-woman-who-29076924.amp

Yes he was mentioned the other day, they need to stop using the description of women or her, it is so offensive to the victims and makes the reporters and the paper look like idiots.

It is Galaxy It’s absolutely pathetic. As you say, it’s offensive all round.
And it’s really confusing to people who are relatively new to the trans debate.
There have been transwomen since the 1960s and there was none of this hoo ha.
Similar to what Doodledog said t’other day, there was a lot of acceptance and good will even back then.
These vile, disgusting men are getting even more kicks out of it.