Woman found guilty of raping two women. Remanded in custody for sentence end February

I wonder if these educational programmes distributed by Stonewall are discussed with parents before being presented by teachers, in the way that sex education lessons were?
A genuine question; I have no idea as all this has developed since I retired.

Yes, it's a dangerous MAN not a woman or transwoman, a MAN

Perhaps the terminology should have been the opposite way round.
A trans MAN is a male who is trans and trans WOMAN is a female who is trans
That way the dangerous MAN would be always be identified as a male.

It is confusing that the terminology was decided the way round it is. So many people thought/think exactly what you've said, that a transwoman is a woman who has transgendered to be a man. It would be so much clearer this way round.

I'm sure it's something the school governors discuss, with parents on the committee? It's such a hot issue.

It's hard not to believe that the choice was deliberate.

The case was discussed on Jeremy Vine (Ch 5) this morning, and the panel members were tying themselves in knots trying to use female pronouns to refer to a man who raped women with his penis and is now not being allowed to go to a women's jail. It would have been funny if not so deadly serious.

'Isla, who raped two women when she was a man. . .'

This must expose the pronoun fascism for the nonsense it is.

If only more journalists/interviewers would ask these questions and persist until they got answers.

twitter.com/peteradamsmith/status/1620051699900755970?s=61&t=qvPb8Ezph9sItiUv0_tlFw

grannydarkhair

If only more journalists/interviewers would ask these questions and persist until they got answers.

twitter.com/peteradamsmith/status/1620051699900755970?s=61&t=qvPb8Ezph9sItiUv0_tlFw

That was amazing! The absolute determination of the interviewer to get his question answered
and the absolute determination of NS to only answer the question she wanted to be asked.

And the fudge answer to "would any woman born a woman be housed in the male estate?"

Oh, that is priceless .

The backpedaling is going to be delicious.

Mollygo yes yes! the emphasis being on Trans while biological sex stays the same. Infinitely sensible. Because then there’s no need for the 120 (and growing) number of variables of gender, simply using the prefix Trans would suffice. We would then be respectfully acknowledging the person is self identifying as something other, while maintaining the logic of language. So the statement ‘Isla who raped two women when she was a man, would be “Trans Isla who raped two Women” - Clean clear language

Mollygo

Perhaps the terminology should have been the opposite way round.
A trans MAN is a male who is trans and trans WOMAN is a female who is trans
That way the dangerous MAN would be always be identified as a male.

When this debate started, I confess to feeling I must be misunderstanding. It seemed obvious that a trans man is a male who is trans and a trans woman is a female who is trans.
Then I got hood winked, brainwashed into accepting madness. Sadly I fear we can’t return to simple easy descriptions. We will be accused of bigotry, of being terfs

I think we can change the language. Sociolinguistic changes happen all the time, usually for the better (eg the language surrounding race or disability). Some of the terms used as mainstream descriptions years ago would be considered beyond the pale now. Look how quickly the language was hijacked by TRAs - it can be reclaimed if there is a will.

That’s brilliant Grannydarkhair - I had to watch it more than once!

Lets reclaim the language

I’ve just watched an itv interview with Nicola Sturgeon. I expect it will be described as a car crash because it was. She foundered blundered and repeated the claim that many people who oppose their self ID policy are homophonic, anti trans and probably racist. Pressed to provide evidence for these statements she seemed to rely on the old ‘everybody knows this ‘ evidence

That's really not going to work anymore. Also for some of the activists she will now be firmly in the bigot category.

In yesterday's Sunday Times, Caroline Wheeler writes in an article entitled "They said Labour's anti'semitisim row was overblown. Now women are being told to shut up too" she quotes David Lammy's comment "feminists who oppose self identification for people wanting to change gender are dinosaurs hoarding their rights" what does that even mean

TerriBull
David Lammy's comment "feminists who oppose self identification for people wanting to change gender are dinosaurs hoarding their rights"
^what does that even mean^
It means certain males don’t like it, and it is a generalisation that exhibits the typical ignorance of misogynistic males. 🤣🤣

Channel 4 news was so good.

I wonder if there will be a backlash, or if the trans lobby will continue to lie low? NS is taking the flack, but there are a lot more where she came from, and it's 'interesting' that there is so little support for her stance.

There have been transwomen since the 1960s and there was none of this hoo ha.
Similar to what Doodledog said t’other day, there was a lot of acceptance and good will even back then.

'Trans Britain - Our Journey from the Shadows' edited by transwoman Christine Burns, gives a lot of background on lobbying that has been going on for decades, to get to where we are now.
It's not the case that everything used to be fine but was taken over.
One chapter is by transman James Morton, of Scottish Trans Alliance, and details the efforts to get gender identity accepted by the Scottish Prison Service in order to show it as a successful example to others.

Mollygo

Perhaps the terminology should have been the opposite way round.
A trans MAN is a male who is trans and trans WOMAN is a female who is trans
That way the dangerous MAN would be always be identified as a male.

That was never going to happen because it would mean trans people were named as the sex they renounce.

Have you noticed a recent change from 'transwomen' and 'transmen' to 'transgender women' and 'transgender men'?
Obviously the intention is to say that they are women or men (as they've chosen) who have 'transgender' as an adjective.
The next move is to simply say 'woman' or 'man' as seen in the headline starting this thread.

The language changes are deliberately intended to cause confusion and to conceal what's really happening .

Demo next week at Scottish Parliament.

Rapes two women, shows not a bit of regret. Gets hurt himself by words, and has now been moved to a sex offenders section.

twitter.com/silviotattiscon/status/1619674612970983426?s=61&t=yPnambGZ0PFUDYQ0movqig

And now we have Angela Rayner saying





She's very careful not to use any pronouns for 'that person'....I wonder why?

Thanks for that link grannydarkhair, so he's afraid because nasty words have been shouted at him. What does he think the women he raped felt?

Did Angela Rayner say that in an interview, Rosie? I'd like to hear it, if so. She (and numerous others) really need to 'have a think', as my mother used to say. It's good that they seem to be shifting their position, but I'd like to see some humility and an apology to Rosie Duffield and Joanna Cherry wouldn't go amiss. JKR and others too.