Woman found guilty of raping two women. Remanded in custody for sentence end February

At least 3 people on this thread do think that galaxy and I'm interested in why?

Also

There are men in prison for raping other men and I don't believe they should be in the general prison population either so that's another prison safeguarding issue

There is more than one

Realistically there should be a seperate prison for that type of offender but there is probably some question of whether that infringes on their rights to visitors etc

But personally I would put safeguarding above rights as we do in many other situations

Yes I was explaining my point of view, I dont speak for other people. We have ended up in this situation because we pretended a group of men arent men.

Now going to a male prison.

Yes we know. Because they are a man.

As the Bill stands NotSpaghetti unless I'm mistaken, it will enable a man with a conviction of rape or sexual assault to obtain a GRC and if later convicted of another crime, would be able to go to a woman's prison even if an intact male.

Although a subsequent conviction may have nothing to do with a sex crime, the fact that one has already been committed, if they still have male genitalia, surely that would put their fellow inmates ie natal women, at risk.

And why if you believe that the body you've been born into is the wrong one, so you should have been a woman, would you want to commit rape Avalon?

I don't see how it does reputational damage to trans women either Galaxy, but does as you say demonstrate why we need segregation by sex.

A trans rapist should do no reputational damage to transgender people trying to live their lives

Unfortunately they will.
This particular case is so high profile it will.

HousePlantQueen

It could be worth reminding ourselves that this ghastly rapist has done a great deal of reputational damage to the vast majority of transgender folk who just want to get on with their lives

Sad but true.

We are still allowed to exclude transwomen with a GRC from single sex services it's just that organisations have tended to make terrible decisions with regard to this, we just need to be really clear that men should not be in womens spaces. You cant change sex and services need to be segregated by sex. If this man had transitioned years ago he still should not be placed in a womans prison.

Galaxy

Yes I was explaining my point of view, I dont speak for other people. We have ended up in this situation because we pretended a group of men arent men.

No, we ended up in this situation because abusive people took advantage of help and compassion given to a vulnerable group who deserve help and compassion.

The same way a child abuser will take advantage of a job working with children or entertaining children.

Safeguarding will be implemented and problems like this will get eradicated but unfortunately abusive people will continue to take advantage of any means to access vulnerable people.

Whether or not we accept teans people as having a genuine problem that causes gender dysphoria will never prevent abusive people from obtaining victims once they have decided to commit that crime.

VS

A trans rapist should do no reputational damage to transgender people trying to live their lives.
Any trans or TRA or their supporters should do no reputational damage to transgender people trying to live their lives.
Unfortunately, there has been so much reputational damage caused by those who see themselves in the right,
by bearing banners about beheading females,
by issuing death threats to females, or
by insisting their ‘authentic self’ means they can rape as a man then demand to be imprisoned as a woman.
In these circumstances, the rapist (who has to be male) is doing harm to females and reputational damage to ALL trans.
I might add that I, and others have pointed out for a long time, the damage that violent, lying and cheating trans have been causing to the public perception of ALL trans. Glad you’ve finally caught up VS.

I agree Galaxy that we ended up in this situation because we pretend a group of men aren't men.

The sex offenders register is life long as far as I am aware and a rapist should never have acces to their chosen victims male or female.

We do not put people in prison to enable them to reoffend.

People in prison costs the taxpayer a ridiculous amount of money but I'm all in favour of more premises, more staff and more safeguarding so that sex offenders are seperate to their chosen victims.

If he was a genuine transwoman ( whatever that may be, I thought saying the magic words was all it took) he still has no place in a womans prison.

Galaxy

Yes we know. Because they are a man.

🙄 No need for rudeness.

Quotes from a poster on Twitter

If it is so clear that sex offender Isla Bryson should not be, and should never have been, in the women's prison at Cornten Vale, why is sex offender Katie Dalowtowski still there?
Let us not forget, Katie D. was put into the men's prison after risk assessment - and THEN moved to the WOMEN'S ESTATE because Katie beat up a MAN!

Too dangerous for the men's estate, but just right for the women's!!

Will Isla also be moved if Isla beats up a man?

I wonder why Nicola Sturgeon only referred to "this prisoner" through the entirety of her reply. She never referred to him by his names, or "this woman/transwoman/man" or use any third person pronouns. And yet we're told it's too awkward not to use third person pronouns and 'the prisoner' wasn't even present to be offended either way.

Mollygo

I don't discriminate based on unfair perceptions.

Statistically a child is in more danger of being murdered by a parent than anyone else. I do not look at parents as potential murderers.

I do not look at trans women as potential rapists.

Safeguarding should be in place for any vulnerable group but I am not going to discriminate.

A known rapist should not have access to victims, male or female.

I have no issue with known offenders losing rights like freedom of movement in public or being housed far away from potential visitors in prisons in order to achieve Safeguarding for their chosen victims

Glad you’ve finally caught up, VS
I’m not holding my breath.

There are men in prison for raping other men and I don't believe they should be in the general prison population either so that's another prison safeguarding issue

Hang on. So men in men's prisons shouldn't have male rapists in with them, but it's ok for women in women's prisons to have male rapists in with them?

The common denominator here is that the rapists are men. They have to be, as, whatever people try to deny, women cannot rape. If anyone can explain why it should be female prisoners who should have male rapists in amongst them, I'd love to hear their reasoning.

Also putting a rapist of women in a general male prison does not protect mean make inmates are safe from rape by that offender. There are many many cases of rape in men's prisons as proof of that.

I would prefer sex offenders seperate to general population in prison.

We shouldn't put men who haven't raped, but have the equipment to facilitate this crime, in with women either, no matter how they 'identify'.

i do not look at trans women as potential rapists
I know you’ve chosen to ignore/ twist our posts on on trans people, but, this is the view of the vast majority of the population

Yes no men in womens spaces. A Male shoplifter wouldnt be placed in a womans prison. It's not dependent on the crime they commit.

doodledog I have been very clear in several comments that rapists should not be housed with potential victims. Or if I need to state it emotionally. Seriously?!? Of course a raper of women should not be in a women's prison, whose bloody stupid idea was that?

Please either reread or examine if you are assigning thoughts to me that suit you on some personal level.

The fact is that I have concerns about all the issues mentioned on this threads...

It is just that these threads seem to generally disencourage solution based thinking and cannot accept anyone who believes trans women with genuine gender dysphoria are women

This is why we can't have nice threads sadly

VioletSky

Also putting a rapist of women in a general male prison does not protect mean make inmates are safe from rape by that offender. There are many many cases of rape in men's prisons as proof of that.

I would prefer sex offenders seperate to general population in prison.

Do you have evidence that those that rape other men in prison are incarcerated for the crime of rape? It's my understanding that young, attractive men are vulnerable to rape by prisoners who have never committed a sex crime outside prison.

I have a very clear solution. All spaces segregated by sex. Dont pretend men are women.

What is genuine gender dysphoria, what criteria are you establishing for that. If this man had gender dysphoria he still had no place in wonens spaces.