Gransnet forums

News & politics

As well as starving the NHS, Education has been starved by this government too.

(243 Posts)
DaisyAnne Fri 27-Jan-23 10:30:59

I wonder if it will be called "The Starvation Government" in the future. With it applying to both people and the services governments promise to provide.

Where education is concerned, school spending, in real terms, has fallen 9% between 2010 and 2020, with the IFS saying this is the largest cut in 40 years.

Never mind the extremists who tell us we all have to pay for what we get or go without.

And never mind the other extremists who shout at and abuse anyone paying for education rather than actually working out how to achieve good education now.

How about just funding the current system and then working out how to improve it, rather than the extreme politicking, which only produces government by spasm and the only progress being backwards.

MaizieD Sun 29-Jan-23 13:58:53

Grany

Hey,
@Keir_Starmer
! You're on record as saying on TV that you believe Corbyn was being smeared, that you stood by him & his actions, & that he was a decent leader and a good man.

Now you claim he was the exact opposite of those things.

Were you lying then, or are you lying now?

@simonmaginn
'I want to pay tribute to Jeremy Corbyn, who led our party through some really difficult times, who energised our movement, and who’s a friend as well as a colleague.' Starmer, K

'Corbyn allowed hate to spread in the party.' Starmer, K

A Starmer for every occasion.

And what does this have to do with the topic of this discussion, Grany?

Why don't you start your own Starmer hate thread?

Glorianny Sun 29-Jan-23 13:42:28

Isn't it awful when the only choice is between a bunch of public school toffs who don't care and a leader who sways and wavers depending on which way the wind is blowing and what the mainstream media are saying.
Whatever happened to a social conscience and believing in support for the poorest and weakest?

Grany Sun 29-Jan-23 11:42:54

Hey,
@Keir_Starmer
! You're on record as saying on TV that you believe Corbyn was being smeared, that you stood by him & his actions, & that he was a decent leader and a good man.

Now you claim he was the exact opposite of those things.

Were you lying then, or are you lying now?

@simonmaginn
'I want to pay tribute to Jeremy Corbyn, who led our party through some really difficult times, who energised our movement, and who’s a friend as well as a colleague.' Starmer, K

'Corbyn allowed hate to spread in the party.' Starmer, K

A Starmer for every occasion.

Callistemon21 Sun 29-Jan-23 10:55:04

Doodledog

I wasn't saying that all parent helpers were busybodies, but that many of them were, in my experience, and that I think that TAs with proper contracts are a far better solution.

I agree, because I do know the type you mean, Doodledog, some of us other helpers were the victims of these Queen Wasps' stings too, as well as the HT and the teachers!

Although I used to enjoy my Fridays in the school library.

Mollygo Sun 29-Jan-23 10:12:24

Agreed -not all parent helpers are busybodies, very few in my experience.

Now, helpers have an induction session with the Head and are asked to sign a form agreeing not to discuss what they see or hear in class. The form also contains a reminder that, should they see anything which gives them concern, they should report it to the class teacher or the head. We don’t have many parent helpers now because of their work commitments, but there are a few grandparents.

Doodledog Sat 28-Jan-23 17:59:12

I wasn't saying that all parent helpers were busybodies, but that many of them were, in my experience, and that I think that TAs with proper contracts are a far better solution.

ronib Sat 28-Jan-23 17:48:13

I almost said pass on this question. But
maybe:

1. 40 per cent of marriages ending in divorce
2. Perhaps financial insecurities delay starting a family
3. Women might want to establish a career path and wait until mid 30s

I don’t think we can blame Boris directly!

Mollygo Sat 28-Jan-23 17:38:43

Missed that one, but it’s true. Schools’ main funding is bums on seats.
Is there a reason for fewer children starting- low birth rate in 2018-2019? Or is there another cause?

ronib Sat 28-Jan-23 17:01:10

Yorkshire Evening Post 19th January
15 per cent drop in numbers of children starting school in Yorkshire therefore drop in budget allocations.

Any one picked up on this?

luluaugust Sat 28-Jan-23 16:31:28

Mollycoddle yes I think TAs are really valuable, without them I know class life would be really difficult

Mollygo Sat 28-Jan-23 13:54:46

luluaugust
It seems to depend on the county authority. The lack of money is certainly the fault of the government, for not funding staff pay rises including those of TAs, and expecting them to be paid out of existing school budgets.
I still haven’t heard ‘people’ n. pl saying that we shouldn’t have TAs.
We, evidently are lucky in the numbers of TAs, whether 1-1 or class OR we have an increasing number of children who either come to school with a funded EHCP or are assessed as needing one whilst at school.

luluaugust Sat 28-Jan-23 13:38:45

I was also a mum who went in to help with reading and art but I was told recently that mum’s are not so welcome now for just the reasons you mention Doodledog. I believe in our County schools have been told there is no money at all to provide one to one help for children with special needs, this means the teacher and one TA find in almost impossible to teach. Some of the children are very disruptive and need a lot of help

VioletSky Sat 28-Jan-23 13:30:40

I actually started as a volunteer. The teachers were the ones who told me I should train. I would never have gossiped about what went on in the classroom, ever

Callistemon21 Sat 28-Jan-23 13:06:50

That shouldn't have made me laugh, Doodledog but your middle paragraph did resonate with me. Perhaps you might have thought I had too much time on my hands when my DC were very young 😃 but I volunteered at school, went in regularly to listen to children read individually and helped some with their reading which was something the teacher couldn't always do. I got on with it quietly.

There was also a very active PTA there (a London school) and, of course, the Queen Bees were always in school, organising and taking charge of the Headmaster who seemed quite happy to let them get on with it.

It was rather like Motherland 😂

Doodledog Sat 28-Jan-23 12:54:21

I'm well out of the loop of primary schools, but when my children were there TAs were rare, and tended to be brought in to supervise children with SEN rather than as more general assistants, although there was one qualified teacher who didn't want classroom responsibility but ran all sorts of things (lost property, book sales, the organisation of music lessons - that sort of thing).

Otherwise it was down to volunteer mothers, many of whom had too much time on their hands, and they caused no end of problems. They would see a snapshot of a 'situation' in a classroom, and gossip at the gates about the teacher's ability to handle it, the child's behaviour, the child's ability, what they would have done better, and so on, all without any context, training or understanding. Some would go in every week, and treated it (in their heads) as a job, so became an unelected, unqualified and uninterviewed 'key person' to organise parents and take on roles they hadn't been asked to fill. Obviously the gossip would get back to the mothers, and there were 'she said that she said' situations on a regular basis, that must have been exhausting for the teaching staff to handle diplomatically.

I think it is far better to have TAs who are staff, so subject to rules of confidentiality and so on, and who are limited in scope to what the teachers actually want them to do. It is also only fair that the role is a paid one, as it is clearly important. Also, Heads can tailor the training of TAs to the needs of the school, eg a friend of my daughter has a boy with pronounced ADHD, and the TA has had training in dealing with this so she can be of more help. I think the idea is that she will follow him up the school, but obviously her training can be applied to other children as needed too.

VioletSky Sat 28-Jan-23 12:32:01

Also that's the news article I shared Mollygo. I was commenting on the people who agree with said cuts and don't think TAs are necessary

VioletSky Sat 28-Jan-23 12:21:23

Mollygo

Cutting TA’s is more to do with the fact that pay increases have had to come out of existing school budgets-no more money being put in. Not to do with TA’s not being valuable. Although when I think of some TAs . . .

What is wrong with some TAs?

ronib Sat 28-Jan-23 12:14:02

Meanwhile breaking news.. a second Tory minister was being investigated at the same time as NZ last summer.

Kate1949 Sat 28-Jan-23 12:13:28

Our daughter works in a senior school in a pastoral care role. She describes going into work as 'going to that hell hole'.

nanna8 Sat 28-Jan-23 12:03:41

My friend’s daughter has given up her position as head of an English dept. in a secondary school and says she will never return to teaching. Not because of the children but because of the abusive and nasty parents.

Glorianny Sat 28-Jan-23 11:50:41

Grantanow

Of course the Tories have starved state education. They simply don't care about ordinary childrens' education - most of them are products of the fee-paying private sector. How many Tory PMs went to state schools - a minute number compared with the old Etonians, Harrovians, etc.

I agree. And educating the lower classes is dangerous. They might realise what a lot of self serving venal individuals a lot of Tories are. And then what could they do? Keep 'em poor, keep 'em ignorant, work' em hard, let 'em die young. It's Tory policy, always has been. Education and the Health service don't matter. And they hide their real intentions by talking about managing money and not living in a nanny-state.

ronib Sat 28-Jan-23 11:24:40

Grantanow this concept of care struck me. I am very impressed with the progress my two young sons have made in a very ordinary not even good primary school in Leeds. So much better than the middle class primary my son attended in the 1980s. I think basic literacy and maths are much better taught now.
Also the major public schools are set up to teach leadership skills… so maybe it’s a failing area these schools need to address?

Grantanow Sat 28-Jan-23 11:12:02

Of course the Tories have starved state education. They simply don't care about ordinary childrens' education - most of them are products of the fee-paying private sector. How many Tory PMs went to state schools - a minute number compared with the old Etonians, Harrovians, etc.

Mollygo Sat 28-Jan-23 07:57:33

Cutting TA’s is more to do with the fact that pay increases have had to come out of existing school budgets-no more money being put in. Not to do with TA’s not being valuable. Although when I think of some TAs . . .

VioletSky Sat 28-Jan-23 00:13:21

Thanks Growstuff

I'm sure I remember a leaked government plan to cut RAs a few years ago too...

So in the last 10 years that's quite a few news articles about cuts to support staff and... it probably shouldn't surprise anyone that there are people who agree with those cuts and think TAs aren't needed for whatever reason