Guy Verhofstadt says “Happy Brexit Day”

I don’t think anyone’s forum name should be shortened, you only need type it once, and if you use the quote facility not at all.
So you’ll stay Urmstongran to me😃

Yes, I did of course mean WTO you are correct Siope.
I think WTO would have been a good first move. A seismic shock perhaps (we’ve had worse recently with the deaths and financial destruction wrought by Covid) and then, talking heads would have got around the negotiating table and thrashed out (through necessity) something more fair to both sides - instead of what we got - the EU wanting to punish the UK for their temerity of voting for Brexit. I understand why they felt the need to do that, to dissuade other EU countries from even contemplating it. Fire it is still talked about in some political circles in France.

Oreo

Yours could be very unfortunate😁

😂

You speak a lot of sense Dickens and I get where you’re coming from. But Boris WAS the only politician promising to honour the referendum result. The LibDems under Jo Swindon (? Sp) just wanted to reverse that democratic resukt carte blanche which obviously suited those who didn’t like the result. But what price democracy? ‘We don’t like the resukt so we will just ignore it’?? Starmer wanted a second referendum (he doesn’t now). Indicative Votes in the HoC was drama and idiotic behaviour on steroids. What chance or alternative did the British voting public have to get Brexit over the line. We desperately needed a champion. Boris likely sussed that as his best way to get elected. But the swell of Red Wall voters who lent the Conservatives their vote - many for the very first time - amazed the journalists with that huge 80 seat majority. It spoke volumes.

Then he wasted it.
I think when he got Covid a few months later it just knocked the stuffing out of him and anyway, it was all “Protect our NHS” and “Stay 2 metres apart” with no vaccines yet on the horizon, people were scared.
And the impetus for Brexit just trickled away.
Timing eh?
.

I think he ignored the threat of a pandemic because he was too busy concentrating on brexit (and, of course, his divorce). Which resulted in people dying. And he was seriously ill with covid because he chose to ignore the severity of it. Taking one for the team as his father said. He would have passed it on to the Queen had he not been prevented from seeing her.

Urmstongran please could you answer Siope’s politely put questions. Thankyou.

Ah IrishDancing I cannot answer Siope’s questions.
I am not clever enough to understand such details but, in my opinion, such pressing questions would have been thrashed out more equitably by both sides (WTO I believe would have been disastrous for both sides) with a degree of competency and urgency. It certainly would have focused minds at the time instead of the drip drip of non urgent talks that we have endured ever since the vote.

The UK is now flaming all the EU regulations on workers' rights, pesticides, additives, water treatment, husbandry, drugs, and so many other things, with so many more to come.

I think you do the UK government a disservice Fleurpepper as some regulations (maternity leave for one if I recall correctly) were already superior to those within the EU. I think we will keep good rules that suit our country. To suggest otherwise is to cast the government with malign intentions towards its electorate and I for one just do not follow that reasoning.

I am talking about things that would/does affect exports.
Take the example of meat- that will now be produced with very different standards to EU. Workers conditions and rights, but mainly feeds, husbandry and antibiotic and other vet medicines, etc.

Why should they take the risk of such produce getting into the EU market, when produced very differently, representing unfair, and possibly dangerous, competition?

Fleurpepper

I am talking about things that would/does affect exports.
Take the example of meat- that will now be produced with very different standards to EU. Workers conditions and rights, but mainly feeds, husbandry and antibiotic and other vet medicines, etc.

Why should they take the risk of such produce getting into the EU market, when produced very differently, representing unfair, and possibly dangerous, competition?

Haven't you understood yet, Fleurpepper that some Leave voters don't give a flying f* about things like placing barriers on trade, or understanding the significance of international agreements. Or the economic decline of their nation and the loss of its international prestige. Or taking away people's valued rights, or voting into power the most worthless human being in the UK and the most corrupt and fascist government we have ever had. Then they expect us to respect their worthless opinions which have nothing to validate them except 'feelings'.

Sorry, I can't be doing with it.

Urmstongran

^The UK is now flaming all the EU regulations on workers' rights, pesticides, additives, water treatment, husbandry, drugs, and so many other things, with so many more to come.^

I think you do the UK government a disservice Fleurpepper as some regulations (maternity leave for one if I recall correctly) were already superior to those within the EU. I think we will keep good rules that suit our country. To suggest otherwise is to cast the government with malign intentions towards its electorate and I for one just do not follow that reasoning.

Well, the legislation to prevent the right to strike has just been passed in parliament I believe. And Sunak appears to be refusing to have a dialogue with striking health workers. Make of that what you will but, imo it’s the thin end if the wedge. Goodbye workers rights…

Just listen to former Tory donor Guy Hands telling the truth about brexit

www.theguardian.com/media/video/2023/jan/31/complete-disaster-and-total-lies-tory-billionaire-lambasts-effects-of-brexit-audio

varian

Just listen to former Tory donor Guy Hands telling the truth about brexit

www.theguardian.com/media/video/2023/jan/31/complete-disaster-and-total-lies-tory-billionaire-lambasts-effects-of-brexit-audio

Interesting comment on Liz Truss.

Did you read about the email - the shortest email in history - sent to Liz Truss by the IMF?

TO: Liz Truss
FROM: IMF

SUBJECT: WTF?

😂

Well, the legislation to prevent the right to strike has just been passed in parliament I believe

No, I don’t think that’s quite right MayBee.
Isn’t it something about maintaining a certain level of service by strike action? I’m sure I read something like that. Maybe I’m wrong so I must look it up later.

Urmstongran

^Well, the legislation to prevent the right to strike has just been passed in parliament I believe^

No, I don’t think that’s quite right MayBee.
Isn’t it something about maintaining a certain level of service by strike action? I’m sure I read something like that. Maybe I’m wrong so I must look it up later.

You are correct Urmstongran

The right to strike is not affected however a basic level service has to be in place during any strike.

I think hyperbole about ‘economic’ decline is difficult to extrapolate and pin it on Brexit at the present time MaizieD as there are so many adverse components - indeed many countries are struggling at present.

Time will tell of course.

And as regards ‘animal husbandry’ and feeds I am pretty sure the UK is top of this field somewhere Fleurpepper and we don’t need diktats from the EU about this, nor veterinary practices. If you can prove otherwise I’d be very interested to hear your evidence.

Thank you GG13 for posting that.
It’s too easy to jump on a bandwagon of ‘UK Bad EU Wonderful’ these days to prove a point. Often things are far more nuanced I find.

GrannyGravy13

Urmstongran

Well, the legislation to prevent the right to strike has just been passed in parliament I believe

No, I don’t think that’s quite right MayBee.
Isn’t it something about maintaining a certain level of service by strike action? I’m sure I read something like that. Maybe I’m wrong so I must look it up later.

You are correct Urmstongran

The right to strike is not affected however a basic level service has to be in place during any strike.

Self evidently the Right to Strike IS affected if a proportion of the workforce is required to maintain a basic level of service when previously that was not the case. You can’t deny the reality.

GrannyGravy13

Urmstongran

Well, the legislation to prevent the right to strike has just been passed in parliament I believe

No, I don’t think that’s quite right MayBee.
Isn’t it something about maintaining a certain level of service by strike action? I’m sure I read something like that. Maybe I’m wrong so I must look it up later.

You are correct Urmstongran

The right to strike is not affected however a basic level service has to be in place during any strike.

I repeatedly ask the same question, but there is no answer from the far right. How, with no minimum safe level of service that governments have to adhere to in normal times, can you work out what a minimum is on strike days?

It is a bastard of a bill. It is being debased by the government every step of the way.

The Committee Stage would be limited to a maximum of five hours.

This phase of the legislative process can normally take days as MPs go over the fine detail of a bill.

The Third Reading would have to be completed within six hours since the start of the Committee Stage.

Dr Alice Lilly, senior researcher at the Institute for Government, told The Standard: “This seems like a short amount of time to scrutinise the bill given how controversial it is.

“What is probably going on here is that the Government knows this bill is likely to run into difficulties in the Lords—where the Government can’t schedule the bill in the same way—and so they are trying to clear the Commons relatively quickly before it potentially gets bogged down in the other House.”

www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/strikes-minimum-service-law-ministers-rail-rmt-nurses-commons-b1052806.html

Oreo

I don’t think anyone’s forum name should be shortened, you only need type it once, and if you use the quote facility not at all.
So you’ll stay Urmstongran to me😃

How long have you been on here Oreo. Names are often shortened. Do we now need a rule written by you? Mine is often Daisy or DA. I don't have a problem with that and I have never seen UG complain.

Continuing to be polite, Urmstongran, as I do appreciate you taking the time to engage civilly.

You haven’t yet answered my questions on the GFA, negotiated agreements for services, and what Rees-Mogg’a evidence base was for his claims. Perhaps you missed those earlier?

You have referenced the EU agreements ‘punishing’ and being unfair to the UK. Could you please explain how they are more punitive and unfair than agreements which exist with other nations with ‘third country’ (in relation to EU trade) status?

Final, for now, polite question: you accept that WTO terms would have been cataclysmic (‘seismic shock’) for the UK. Given that the EU cannot change the terms under which it trades with ‘third country’ nations, no matter what, what would have been achieved by a no-deal Brexit that was important enough to have damaged our social, fiscal and economic well-being so badly?

I’m not sure Siope that this bear of little brain can sort out the GFA on the back of an envelope this morning. I don’t have a clue how to resolve it. In time however, I’m sure pragmatism will prevail and more intelligent people than I will find a solution.

I think you make a valid point about whether or not we are being treated unfairly by the EU. Yes, we are considered now a ‘third world country’. It’s probably just how I perceive it and what I’ve heard on tv over the years - that the EU most definitely don’t want the other 26 countries to consider breaking away. Whatever, I’m sure we will manage. We have so far and I truly believe things will get better. Technology, smarter and more efficient systems will evolve for instance cutting time which companies (small and large) need more of for smoother operations.

As regards WTO that ship has sailed anyway.

About 1,000 university research jobs are at risk unless the UK government urgently replaces European Union funding, bosses have warned.

Universities Wales said the loss of large-scale EU funding access has put the research and innovation sector on "the precipice of a disaster".

One researcher said she had put her wedding on hold after being told she would be made redundant.

The UK government said the UK Shared Prosperity Fund would match EU funding.

www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-64483923

I’m not sure Siope that this bear of little brain can sort out the GFA on the back of an envelope this morning. I don’t have a clue how to resolve it. In time however, I’m sure pragmatism will prevail and more intelligent people than I will find a solution.

Most uncivilly, I will point out that bears of little brain shouldn't talk nonsense about things they don't understand.