Guy Verhofstadt says “Happy Brexit Day”

DaisyAnne

It seems to me that neither the extreme Leave voters or the extreme Remain voters can accept that Brexit has actually happened. They go on fighting because they each know that, although a battle has been won, the war hasn't.

Those having a more pragmatic turn of mind just want to get over all the issues and problems caused and get on with making life better.

I suppose it was ever thus.

This.

Hear, hear

What I would like to know is why those Brexiteers, such as Urmstongran, who are still fighting old battles, don't agree with such common sense.

What, exactly, are they afraid of?

I’m not ‘afraid’ of anything DaisyAnne.
I would however like Brexit to be fully enacted. That would suffice. It is however what the majority (who bothered to vote) voted for. Not this inertia.

Urmstongran

^What I would like to know is why those Brexiteers, such as Urmstongran, who are still fighting old battles, don't agree with such common sense.^

What, exactly, are they afraid of?

I’m not ‘afraid’ of anything DaisyAnne.
I would however like Brexit to be fully enacted. That would suffice. It is however what the majority (who bothered to vote) voted for. Not this inertia.

What does that mean 'Brexit fully enacted'?

Since Brexit was never defined before the vote, how is anyone supposed to know what it is and how ti should or could be enacted. Hannan was saying this the other day. Hannan who repeated during the campaign that 'no-one is even thinking of leaving the Single Market or the Customs Union'.

So could you please say what would need to be done to 'fully enact'.

What would you do with Ireland and NI- where would you put the border. How would you get the promised super Deal with the USA?

The NIP was weaponised to hurt the stability of the UK after Brexit. The EU would likely favour a united Ireland but that’s not going to happen. Varadkar realises now he overplayed his hand. Agrees the ‘trusted trader’ scheme could have worked but oh no, the EU had to ‘teach us a lesson’ and tried to crack a nut with a sledgehammer.

I’d set out for trusted trader. The technology is there.

And if the EU demand a border, let them set one up.
Clue: They won’t.

VioletSky

It is not as if ordinary people are sabotaging brexit by disagreeing with it

What are we supposed to do exactly? Life gets harder and harder lately

That is very true.

Urmstongran

The NIP was weaponised to hurt the stability of the UK after Brexit. The EU would likely favour a united Ireland but that’s not going to happen. Varadkar realises now he overplayed his hand. Agrees the ‘trusted trader’ scheme could have worked but oh no, the EU had to ‘teach us a lesson’ and tried to crack a nut with a sledgehammer.

I’d set out for trusted trader. The technology is there.

And if the EU demand a border, let them set one up.
Clue: They won’t.

Surely one of the strongest claims of thew berxiters was that they would protect our borders?

What was their proposal regarding the island of Ireland?

Such a shame that Ug isn't in government. I'm sure she'd have delivered all those unicorns by now.

Urmstongran

^What I would like to know is why those Brexiteers, such as Urmstongran, who are still fighting old battles, don't agree with such common sense.^

What, exactly, are they afraid of?

I’m not ‘afraid’ of anything DaisyAnne.
I would however like Brexit to be fully enacted. That would suffice. It is however what the majority (who bothered to vote) voted for. Not this inertia.

You got what you wanted, and we left. There is not, and has never been, a defined "Brexit". I don't know about your voting slip, but mine only asked one question about whether I wanted to "Leave" or "Remain". We left. After that, it's politics as normal'. "Brexit", whatever it meant to individuals, was not voted on.

What you want now are some of the things you believe the right-wing politicians promised you. Well, hard luck with that. Those who talk about "fully enacted", etc., are just the hard right who think they can continue to use the referendum for their political aims. And on the hard left, they use it to continue to fight against those aims to get what they want.

Move on, for heaven's sake. Let everyone just pick up the pieces and do the best we can.

MaizieD

Such a shame that Ug isn't in government. I'm sure she'd have delivered all those unicorns by now.

I’d have gone WTA from the off. Then got around the negotiating table.

Thank goodness we don't have UG making decisions for us all.

I despair of the people who are so brainwashed by the Daily Mail that they actually ignore all evidence and repeat the senseless mantras they have been conditioned to parrot without any regard for the facts.

You are your usual charming self tonight I see varian. Why the need to be insulting? I never resort to such comments about posters yet I’m expected to put up with them.

,The ardent brexiters who have done such damage to our country should wake up, admit they were misled, got it seriously wrong, and have inflicted untold dMage on our country.

The least they should do is admit they were sorely mistaken and apologise.

Fortunately, although rather too late, many of those who voted Leave have now realised that they made the wrong choice. An increasing number in every survey express a wish for the UK to still be in the EU.

I am not optimistic about us rejoining in my lifetime like so many who have suffered the consequences to that fraudulent referendum but I hope that my children and grandchildren may live to see our cou try return to the EU within their lifetimes.

I will continue to spell out the truth to those who are still deluded enough to think that brexit is in any way good for the ordinary citizens of the UK, our economy our our standing in the world.

I’d have gone WTA from the off. Then got around the negotiating table

I assume you mean WTO, as I don’t the the tennis authorities much care about British trade.

I have some polite questions: you would be happy having the terms and conditions of all trade in goods dictated by 165 unelected officials?

What would you do about agreements on specific sectors? You are, I am sure, au fait with how many such agreements the USA and Australia, for example, have with the EU, in order to avoid all trade being on WTO terms. Which sectors would you have negotiated separately for, and how quickly could that have been achieved?

To what extent would you have been able to negotiate tariff variations - specifically please - taking into account WTO favoured nation rules?

How would you have reassured businesses about non-tariff barriers? What would you have done to mitigate additional costs related to these?

I’m sure you know that WTO rules apply only to goods. What would you have negotiated with the EU in regard to services? Which would you have prioritised, and how quickly could agreements have been put in place for those? How would you mitigate the impact during any negotiation period?

With regard to your post on Northern Ireland: how would you have ensured the integrity of the Good Friday Agreement was maintained? Which elements of Brexit conflict with the self-determination of Northern Ireland agreed in the GFA, and how would your proposals have alleviated these?

Over to you ug 😄

Urmstongran

You are your usual charming self tonight I see varian. Why the need to be insulting? I never resort to such comments about posters yet I’m expected to put up with them.

Well I try not to be rude personally. And I do appreciate the fact that you do reply, even when you know your replies are not likely to be positively welcomed.

Your replies do scare me though. As said WTO means being ruled by a large of unknown unelected bureaucrats, much worse that being part ruled by EU MPs we have elected ourselves (not our fault so many do not vote in such elections) and at the top table, part of the decisions.

WTO would give us NO representation, NO say, NO influence.

And a border has to be, on every bit we share with the EU- that was always clear, however vague Brexit was otherwise. The UK is now flaming all the EU regulations on workers' rights, pesticides, additives, water treatment, husbandry, drugs, and so many other things, with so many more to come.

So the EU is absolutely right in insisting those products, produced with much lower standards, and increasingly so, as more and more EU regs are done away with, do not cross over the border and onto EU markets. Makes total sense.

So it is hard not to get angry, sarcastic and at times, more... because the whole country is being trashed, and most of its people going down with the sinking ship. Very hard.

Why do posters call Urmstongran Ug ?

Johnson got the gig on his promise to "get Brexit done".

He didn't ask Leavers - "how do you want it 'done", didn't stop to consider the best way of achieving our exit. He allowed no time to consider or reflect on an event that would shape our future life, constitutionally, economically, culturally. The clamour to get 'out' from his majority spurred him to literally get it over and done with for fear of losing his power and popularity, and what we got is a rushed and botched ;agreement. He could - like any sensible person responsible for a major change - have taken his time, looked at all the angles and possible consequences, and allowed scrutiny of the final document. But he knew that if he did that, he would incur the wrath of those who lent him their vote and lose their support, and his very position as head honcho would be in jeopardy. So he rushed it through, and here we are.

There are numerous reports of people saying, "this is not the Brexit we voted for", and similar comments from those that are disappointed with the way things have turned out. Considering all the hype from the pro-Brexit high-fliers, it's hardly surprising because they all 'promised' and promoted ideas that are the complete opposite of the end result. IMO, Johnson was the very worst person to choose to oversee Brexit. And I'm not even sure he believed or still believes himself half of the stuff he came out with or promoted. But it didn't and doesn't matter to him because his objective was to become PM and maintain that power. He's now grand-standing around the world because he can't let go of his ambition and cannot accept that he's had it, that he's no longer top dog. He and Trump have that much in common - a super, massive ego, that has to be constantly fed - even if it means flying in the face of facts, even if it means going against the increasing wishes of people that he bows out. And both he and Trump are now loose cannons. Both lie, and both believe their own lies Anyone who speaks against either are considered to be wrong - simply by the mere fact of opposing them. I think both men have damaged their respective countries and don't actually give a damn. Of the two, Johnson is the most intelligent, and that makes him even more dangerous.

Brexit was not about 'Brexit' - it was about Boris Johnson's power grab.

Abbreviation. U for Urmston g for gran.

I've always abbreviated it like that, with no malign intent originally, and have no intention of changing now.

GrannyGravy13

Why do posters call Urmstongran Ug ?

... as MaizieD indicated. And sometimes abbreviated to "Urms" - which I do, but it's meant 'affectionately'.

I don't think anyone abbreviates anyone else's name maliciously.

Well I hope they don't, anyway.

Yours could be very unfortunate😁

I haven’t read all of the comments since my last post but thank you GG13 for asking that question. Ages ago, I did ask volver not to address me as UG as it seemed to portray me (by a play on words) as some sort of Neanderthal. She graciously accepted my request and has, ever since, addressed me as Urms.

I suppose I ought not to be so sensitive. I suppose also this is in part because my views are diametrically opposed to the vast majority of view on Brexit on GN. However it still hurts a little when some responses to my views attack the player and not the ball. By calling me dim etc.

I do respect other people’s views and I never call people stupid or dim witted. I would just very much appreciate the same level of courtesy.

Debate is good. We have different opinions and that’s fine and understandable.

That made me laugh Oreo!

👋🏼