Another child killed in dog attack

Fleurpepper

Did you actually read my posts. I have worked for organisations that did just that, find and report, and prosecute. With the RSPCA and Police Wildlife Liaison officers!!!

Have you been out with them on raids, FleurPepper? Scary indeed.

Yes, we are aware and yes, we know these activities are illegal.

So is more legislation needed or is there sufficient in place already? What are the results of the prosecutions? Are the punishments sufficient as a deterrent?

What about legislation regarding dog ownership which could be the point here? I think owners should have to have a licence to own a dog but if the cost is too high then many, especially older people, may have to give up their much-loved pets. Many more dogs could be abandoned.

You did post recently in defence of rescue dogs from overseas but we know not all are suitable as family pets. Some are street dogs, running in packs.
Should more breeds be placed on the banned list?

The horror of this latest case is appalling and the thought of what happened is sickening.

Not shouting, And not saying I am the only one who knows about such people and their murky, dangerous and disgusting, cruel world. I am saying that most people are totally unaware that it goes on. Those who have actually worked in the fight against those people and activities are very rare indeed.

The American Pit Bull is banned and much feared over here. In the US a lot of them are used for fighting and there are heartbreaking stories of the ones that are used as bait dogs to train the real fighters. They are eventually discarded in a terrible state, badly injured and terrified of everything. I imagine the same thing happens over here with Staffie crosses. We don't seem to have quite such a culture of dumping dogs and cats on the road as they do in some American states.

I am not in defence of rescuing from abroad. I am rescuing a dog from Tunisia found by a friend, and who has been under observation and training for 5 months and proven to be safe. We have no young children, and we are very experienced, and we will do obedience classes and training with her. she is arriving week-end after next. We are fully ready.

One child killed by a certain breed of dog should be enough for them to be banned with household with children under 10. It should be law they are kept on a lead too. Though how it could be policed I don`t know can`t be impossible though. We have enough patrols around here making sure dog muck is picked up and the dog has a collar with phone number on. You are fined if not.

Dear Lord, I don’t believe it. How qualified is your friend to assess and train this dog and how traumatic do you think the journey and quarantine will be for this poor creature? You say you are very experienced and fully ready. Unfortunately the dog is neither. Someone who cares for the well-being of stray dogs abroad supports a charity which cares for them and, if their circumstances are acceptable to UK rescue charities , adopts here. UK rescue charities can’t keep pace with the number of dogs being abandoned here. Why on earth are you doing this? Does it not occur to you that the rescue dog which killed the four year old may have come from exactly this background?

Callistemon 'Have you been out with them on raids, FleurPepper? Scary indeed.'

no, this is not how undercover work works. But I have come across them, badger diggers and lampers- scary people indeed. The key is not to react at the time, and report. Reacting in the field would put anyone in very serious danger!

I'm astonished, speechless (for once)!
It sounds really dangerous.

So how do they get caught if you don’t react at the time? Where’s the evidence?

Obervation from afar with binocs, descriptions, and take photos of all cars and number plates and call police- easier now with mobiles. The Police know who they are anyhow.

On radio 4 this morning a man from The Kennel Club stated that no child should be left alone with a dog. The interviewer seemed surprised and went on to ask how dogs could be trained not to be agressif it their tail is being pulled be a young child. The man said that there are courses ‘safe and sound’ which teaches children how to behave around dogs. Personally I was brought up with dogs and we were always told the dog was not a toy. That it the problem these days, dogs should be respected, they are not toys to amuse children.

Yes, so well said, so true. The children need to be trained, even more than the dogs!

How do you take photos which are sufficient for evidential purposes in the dark fp? I appreciate you can use night vision binoculars, but the photos?

Shelflife

GSM I understand what you are saying about the problem a dog may have if not familiar with children - I don't doubt your comment. However that is the dog and his owners problem not mine or my precious GC s problem! Had I not been in the room I dread to think what may have happened!!!? One thing is for sure I will never trust any dog again and that includes my DDs soft and affectionate dogs. I was very frightened and will never forget what almost happened. Accustomed to children or not I now know all dogs are not to be fully trusted. My GC was not provoking or teasing the dog , I would not have allowed that. After six months have passed I am still traumatized by what happened.

I don't intend to harsh but how do you expect the dog to learn how to respond to children when it doesn't live with them or come across them. The dog came into your home, presumably expecting to see just you. You did the right thing. However, you could ask your neighbour to introduce her dog to your GC. She would know immediately how the dog was going to react and deal with it accordingly. The likelihood is that the dog would behave well.

mokryna Exactly.

No dog can ever be entirely trusted - big or small, whatever breed. Ideally, of course, dogs and children would be kept apart or supervised at all times, both would be well trained in how to behave towards each other. For instance, youngsters will stare at a dog - and the dog will see it as a threat or challenge.

My little JRT is, statistically, amongst the breeds most likely to bite. Do all the statistics allow for the sheer number of common types of dogs, though? What about the increase in (lockdown) dog ownership?

Jaw size is important too. The damage done by a nip from a small dog is incomparable with that from a wide, large, strong mouth.

Yes, I'd like more education on pet ownership responsibilities, on parenthood, too, with increased safety awareness - perhaps not legislation, though, that will be ignored.

Every death's a tragedy, the four kids a year killed by dogs - and the one every week murdered by humans (so called).

From the responses to my earlier post about the out-of-control GSD type dog, it sounds as though the woman was well out of her depth. Scary stuff.

SueDonim

From the responses to my earlier post about the out-of-control GSD type dog, it sounds as though the woman was well out of her depth. Scary stuff.

It was reportedly an American bulldog from a rescue centre.
Why was it allowed to go to a family with a small child, to a house with a very small garden?
There needs to be more accountability by rescue centres and the public must surely now be aware of the possible dangers too.

Poor, innocent little girl. 😪

Dinamo, I appreciate and understand what you say . It is true that this dog knows me well - I am fond of him!! He lives with an older couple ( my age !) So you are correct he does not live with children. However , I do know that even if he were to be introduced to my GC I would always be on very high alert. With this in mind I would not entertain the idea of trying to get the dog to recognize and become relaxed with my GC - apart from the fact this is my daughter's child not mine I would never have the dog anywhere near my GC ever again - the risk is one I am most certainly not prepared to take. It was a truly terrifying experience, I couldn't believe he would turn like that , for no reason whatsoever!! It was definitely the presence of my GC that alarmed him, immediately the child was in my utility room the dog settled down and became the dog I have always known - but I have learnt my lesson and there will most definitely never be any dog / child introductions. I was very shaken and still find it difficult to erase the memory. If the dog had bitten my GC or the situation resulted in something much worse I would be unable to recover from that - it's a risk far too great to take. As you can probably tell I am still in shock. I am also very disappointed in him as this dog has always been such a happy creature and he is always delighted to see me. I am just so glad I was in the room and able to immediately remove my GC to a safe place . I was shaking with fear!

Fleurpepper
Was it bad timing on your part that your going Skiing in a couple weeks and the rescue dog is coming in a couple of weeks.

You need to manage this situation carefully Shelflife or your grandchildren will pick up on your fear and may develop a lifelong fear of dogs as we have seen in some posters here. I agree that a properly supervised introduction would be sensible and of course properly supervised meetings after that. The dog needs to understand that small people are not a threat and the children need to learn how to behave around dogs.

Sorry to bark (!!) on about the brilliant Dogs Trust workshops in school, but one of the things they stress to the children is that - you always ask your parents first if you can stroke a dog that isn't yours, then you ask the owner if it is OK to do so. Basically teaching manners and respect for the dog.
They also stress to the children it is important not to cuddle even your own dog because dogs don't like the feeling of being trapped or smothered.
All these workshops are conducted with toy dogs, not the real thing, but they are invaluable. The children never forget the lessons.

I think what dog lovers have to remember is that it’s ok not to be a dog lover (as long as you’re not harmful to them) you can grow up without having a lesser life because there’s not a dog in it My grandson was knocked over by a boxer as a little one it didn’t hurt him at all just stood over him after knocking him down but as a child my grandson would grab your hand or go behind your back if he saw a dog coming along as he got older he would cross the road if he saw a dog coming (and yes GSM we did try the introductions to small kind dogs with no success) Now as an adult he is not a dog lover but tolerates them and is not afraid of them but he doesn’t have any less a life for not being interested in dogs
I know all the dog lovers on here are very defensive but this isn’t about you, it’s about the stupid people who treat dogs as human beings, the idiots who are causing all the inbreeding by paying huge sums of money for a more wrinkled, more snubnosed more bow legged, bigger, stronger, caricature of the original breed, for the people who dress their dogs up put them in handbags pushchairs and use a an accessory, it’s very much about the gangs promoting dog fighting and it’s about illegal breeding puppy farms etc

I don’t agree nothing can be done we have done it with cars we can do it with dogs
Are their any petitions going round I haven’t seen any perhaps there’s just too many defensive dog lovers which seems to be 8/10 people

I did notice in one of the pictures from the garden area of the house concerned that there was a dog bowl. In the close up it was clear there had been food in the bowl. I wonder if the dog was eating and the little girl was hugging the dog or something. A little 4 yr old wouldn’t know and I don’t wish to be judgemental but, yet again, there does appear to be a lack of care by responsible adults.

Exactly, another thing taught by The Dogs Trust - leave a dog well alone while it is eating and don't eat your own food, like a snack or crisps, in its face.