Another child killed in dog attack

BlueBelle, those of us who are responsible dog owners are not defensive. We know where the problems lie. You obviously favour a licensing system and think that will cure everything. It won’t. How often do you read about a criminal caught in an unlicensed, uninsured car? How on earth you think a licensing system would be policed I don’t know - and as with cars, the ‘underground’ rogue breeders and the drug dealer types with their aggressive dogs would avoid it.

Well you’re reading my mind now GSM I m not saying at all that a licensing system would cure everything, however it could be a start. Why are you anti any kind of licensing ? I m not naive I don’t believe it’s a cure all, but at least it would be a start a national register, and yes the awful dog fighters and drug dealers etc will not be phased and will often go under the radar but you know what, it MAY just MAY have saved this little girl, whose family don’t seem to have been in any of those bully boy categories.
So far all you ve come up with is ‘nothing can be done’ and I believe we ALL need to be thinking of what can be done not what can’t.

BlueBelle, I’m echoing germanshepherdmum’s comment. I haven’t seen defensive posts from the many posters on this thread who share their lives with dogs.
The need for legislating to prevent ‘professional’ dog walkers with no formal training setting up lucrative businesses where the put dogs and humans at risk has been stressed. There have been numerous positive comments about legislative oversight on breeding, puppy farms etc. The major difficulty is the cost involved. We’d need an army of well trained people to implement and oversea. Retired police and military dog handlers would have the necessary skills. Seriously - it needs police teams to go into the homes of these brutes who breed xl bullies and chop puppies ears off - Lawless people.

We should not be importing street dogs from abroad. So many of them end up in our over flowing rescue centres because the can’t adjust to domestic life.

X posted their BlueBelle. I’m not convinced this government would invest in the expense needed to licence etc.

I was just wondering how many humans killed children and adults last year compared to same by dogs. I have no idea of the statistics and honestly don’t have time to look at present. I’m an animal lover and feel very strongly it’s all down to irresponsible, intellectually challenged and downright stupid people. Dogs want to please, are loyal and devoted but are terribly harmed by poor treatment at the hands of humans.

What can be done? I honestly don’t know but I know I’d start with far less breeding of dogs and humans.

Totally agree with your post Iam
I think you’re right about the government but I just refuse to believe nothing can be done

I know this is totally unliked and I ll be decried by dog owners but they shouldn’t be in shops and cafes and other spaces, which has happened in the last few years
Dogs have been lifted into a different category of importance

We have a beautiful shop but we ve had a dog wee in it (I know it’s the owners fault not the dogs ) not all dogs smell good especially if they come in from the rain but they are brushing against the clothes
We have a lovely new entertainment space in town where we have free entertain and various food outlets AND dogs it just shouldnt be ….when I had my dog she stayed at home when I went shopping or lunch or a show of any kind

I just think we can’t sit back and say nothing can be done something should be done and must be done and the first thing to be done is put dogs back into the catergory they belong, they are animals as wonderful as they are

Absolutely spot on, Iam.

What you describe is the very least of our problems BlueBelle.

Germanshepherdsmum

What you describe is the very least of our problems BlueBelle.

Agreed GSM - this is not a thread about dogs or no dogs- but about very specific kind of dog, bred and trained to fight and kill.

If you have a clothes shop- it is up to you to say 'NO DOGS' - I would, for sure.

Thanks GSM , I understand what you are saying. At the time I didn't make a huge fuss about it for that very reason and GC has been in the presence of dogs since , I watched carefully and was relieved to notice GC seemed very relaxed around the dogs. I don't own a dog but I do like them and have never been afraid of dogs. It was a very unfortunate incident ( to say the least!) I could argue the dog should have been contained on their property - huge garden but lots of opportunities to escape, which he does on a regular basis. I have always been happy to greet him , he comes into my kitchen and enjoys my attention. He really listens to me and I have grown very fond of him . I suppose he was not expecting to see a child, but GC was simply playing quietly, the dogs reaction was instant. I will recover but
It will take time. Dog has been to visit me since and was very calm , but no child present. It is just something I am now very aware of . I usually close my gate when GC is here but we were about to go out so gate was open. Since the incident I close my gate immediately GC arrives , my garden is then more secure than my neighbours, so I do have a solution to the problem. I understand that gradual introduction sessions would be the answer, I am simply not brave enough! and wouldn't do it anyway without my daughters permission. Of course I explained to my daughter what had happened, but didn't make a big deal if it , so don't think she is fully aware of how we were a whisker away from something very nasty indeed! So dog lovers must forgive my reluctance about having ' nice to meet you sessions ' !

That must have been frightening, Shelflife and you were very sensible, taking the right course of action I think.

I don't think I'd be keen on trying to re-introduce that dog to my DGS either and it's not your decision to make, as you say.

I saw a picture recently of a dog which had been left abandoned in a flat - with twelve newborn puppies! The person who did this should be severely punished.
If someone is banned from keeping animals for life or even a number of years, how strictly can this be enforced?

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/american-bulldog-12-puppies-found-26109641

Poor dog, its ears have been cropped too.
Not just irresponsible, it's criminal.

feel very strongly it’s all down to irresponsible, intellectually challenged and downright stupid people

So ..... what do we do about this? Let them go on putting us all in danger? Or do we just accept that there is nothing to be done and children and adults will continue getting mauled?

What do you propose Lucky?

Germanshepherdsmum

What do you propose Lucky?

This is contentious, 😉 I know, but how about stopping the idiots breeding.
Someone had to say it.

Germanshepherdsmum

*BlueBelle*, those of us who are responsible dog owners are not defensive. We know where the problems lie. You obviously favour a licensing system and think that will cure everything. It won’t. How often do you read about a criminal caught in an unlicensed, uninsured car? How on earth you think a licensing system would be policed I don’t know - and as with cars, the ‘underground’ rogue breeders and the drug dealer types with their aggressive dogs would avoid it.

If a fee is paid per year, and enforced by local council- and on local, County and National register- then many jobs could be created to do the enforcement. It works in so many countries, why should the UK be any different?

Throw money at having lots of dog wardens.
Strengthen the law on importation of dogs.
Ban adverts that show dogs round little children and babies. Ad campaign stressing the dangers of dogs.
Free distribution of dog dazers so the public can defend themselves.
Limit the number of dogs any household can own.
Ban dogs from town and city areas.
Ban the walking of dogs off lead anywhere - if you do not have a garden big enough to exercise a dog without interfering with others' safety, then you should not have a dog.
Dog owners obligatory training - to include awareness that not everyone thinks there dog is the cutest thing out and just trying to "be friendly."
Compulsory insurance so that when someone's brand new coat gets ruined by your pooch jumping up you are obliged to reimburse them the cost of cleaning/replacing.
Bring in a law of "dog nuisance" so that any dog being a nuisance of any kind (barking, jumping up etc.) can be either removed from that useless owner or the owner be fined.

I could go on! It is about changing the mindset that gives people the right to own a dog or dogs without a firm responsibility to prevent it being a nuisance.

👏👏👏 Meryl.

fp, do you seriously believe that the sort of people who own the dangerous dogs are going to register them? The neighbours of the four year old who was killed didn’t even know there was a dog in the house, hadn’t seen it, hadn’t heard it. We are talking mainly of people with low IQs and members of the criminal fraternity who are responsible for the problem. Not the law-abiding Mrs Bloggs who will dutifully register her ownership of her little dog.

Luckygirl13 It sounds as though more is being done with the Dogs' Trust and other organisations explaining to children how to behave around dogs.

We have two blind dogs, both aged about 10 - 11. One is a bit frightened of visitors and runs away, the other growls at them. So, when friends come who don't know them we put a lead on the growly one and let our visitors introduce themselves to him. Usually he calms down and makes friends. If they don't like dogs or are scared of them we put him in the bedroom as soon as they arrive. Putting a lead on him before we open the door ensures that we have control.

Someone asked how many children aged under 16 are killed in the UK. The most recent figures are for the year to 31 March 2021. The answer is 59 and 42% of those were killed by a parent or step parent. It is rare for a child to be killed by a stranger - usually it's 1 a year. Regarding children killed by dogs, the latest figures I could find were for 2015 (ONS) which was 2 and for 2016 and 2017 (Department for the Environment ) which were 5 and 1 respectively.

One could go further and check the number of reported incidences of attacks on people of all ages but I suspect they would be minimal compared with attacks by humans on humans.

Imagine the outcry if police forces were obliged to check dog licenses (if they existed) and registered dog walkers. It would be huge because it would have to be at the expense of serious crimes. Listen to the outcry about firemen rescuing cats from trees - 200 in the last year on record. Apart from anything else it's good practice for them to climb up ladders in what are some times difficult circumstances.

Fleurpepper

I am not in defence of rescuing from abroad. I am rescuing a dog from Tunisia found by a friend, and who has been under observation and training for 5 months and proven to be safe. We have no young children, and we are very experienced, and we will do obedience classes and training with her. she is arriving week-end after next. We are fully ready.

No dogs should be rescued from abroad, if you have empathy for such animals invest in a local charity abroad.

There are hundreds of rescue centres in the UK who are desperate for finding forever homes for their dogs.

It's not just deaths, although I think we would all agree that one is too many. The vet in TV this morning said that last year almost 9000 people were treated in hospital for dog bites.

Dear Lord, Lucky.

Throw money at having dog wardens - you need the likes of armed police dog handlers to deal with dangerous dogs, not the likes of traffic wardens.
Strengthen the law on importation - fine. Tell fp who’s about to bring one in.
Ban adverts - I haven’t seen any such. Public information campaign fine if sensibly done.
Dog dazers in the hands of the general public - you cannot be serious.
Limitation on numbers of dogs owned - it’s not the numbers owned, it’s the breeds and the utter morons who own the dangerous ones.
Ban dogs from towns - that’s plain daft.
Ban walking off lead everywhere - no way, even though I don’t do it myself.
Obligatory training - unenforceable.
Compulsory insurance ditto.
Nuisance - we do have nuisance laws. You obviously don’t know that.

I’m afraid your suggestions smack of a deep dislike of dogs. The real problems have been pointed out here ad nauseum.

With respect GSM, and this isn't meant to be a dig, but people are perfectly entitled to have a deep dislike of dogs as long as they are doing no harm to them.

I think much should and could be done, Luckygirl

Speaking as someone who has been a dog owner, I wouldn't say that those posting on here who own and love their dogs could be called 'dog-lovers' because loving one's own dog(s) doesnt mean it unconditionally extends to all dogs.
Posters seem to be reasonable with sensible views.

Bring in a law of "dog nuisance" so that any dog being a nuisance of any kind (barking, jumping up etc.) can be either removed from that useless owner or the owner be fined

Barking - well dogs do bark but yes, incessant barking all day every day because the dog has been left alone perhaps outside is dreadful for the neighbours.
Jumping up - that can be frightening and our DGD was knocked over by a large, unknown dog when she was about two and is still rather nervous. And a friend was out walking when a large, luckily friendly dog jumped up and put its paws on her shoulders and licked her face!

It's the owners who need training as well as the dogs.
Unscrupulous breeders should be shut down and banned from keeping animals for life.
Rescue centres should be much more careful when rehoming dogs which may have had a difficult past. This latest tragic case is just one too many.

Kate1949

With respect GSM, and this isn't meant to be a dig, but people are perfectly entitled to have a deep dislike of dogs as long as they are doing no harm to them.

What about all those people for whom a dog is a genuine life line. Especially the older generation.

I watch the programme "In the Dog House" at the Digs' Trust. There's often older people who go to find a companion because they want company and also a reason to get up and go out. Last night an elderly lady aged 85 (co-founder of Rigby and Peller) whose husband of 60 years had died. They selected a Bassett Hound for her which she bonded with fairly quickly. Upon reflection she decided that the dog was big for her so she is still looking. But many find the right dog on their first visit.