One for those who never go on the News and Politics Forum

dragonfly46

MaizieD

dragonfly46

The clue was in the title Maizie

So, having opened the thread and seen the video, which wasn't about people like you at all, why continue to post?

I really don't know and have been asking myself the same question!

😁

This thread is a parody of itself now.
Chat v N&P 🙄

nanna8

Oh dear. We all have our different perceptions.

If that is your opinion then maybe you should stick to Chat etc.

nanna8

But why should we have to defend anything ? It is not a court of law, just a chat place. For many years, most of my life, I have been involved with academics and professors of various disciplines ( married to one, 2 kids married to them, some family members etc) and they don’t go on like that. Why would you ? Just rude in my book.

Surely N & P is a place for serious discussion, one hopes. Not chat. There is even a Chat forum.

Suppose, for example, (not suggesting that you do) support the re-introduction of capital punishment. Surely you would expect to be asked to defend your point of view? To come up with some statistics to support that view?

Oh dear. We all have our different perceptions.

It’s not just chat round family table.?it’s a discussion forum

Sorry nanna8, but if people write things which are just objectively nonsense, people are justified in asking them for some reasons for their assertions. I'm not talking about opinions, but claims about facts.

But why should we have to defend anything ? It is not a court of law, just a chat place. For many years, most of my life, I have been involved with academics and professors of various disciplines ( married to one, 2 kids married to them, some family members etc) and they don’t go on like that. Why would you ? Just rude in my book.

MaizieD

I feel there's a sub text of "I don't like having to defend my views".

Having seen posters being ripped to shreds in other sections of this site I don't feel that N & P is uniquely awful. 🤔

Spot on

Lucca

The old “some posters” thing. Actually more irritating than anything else

Indeed.

Oh yes, I dislike the assumption that if you think A you must (or can't) think B, or that if you agree with person C you must also support their policies on D.

Almost worse is the treatment of left and right wing as religions, when they are just broad-based descriptions of a general point of view.

The old “some posters” thing. Actually more irritating than anything else

Reasonable political debate ought to be based on evidence

But therein lies the problem.

All political parties offer something good to someone ( backed up by evidence )
It’s just some people can’t accept that and will try and dispute it, ( it’s lies all lies! ) and argue all day about how deluded that person is - or just how horrible they are.

Voting Tory so they pay less inheritance tax for example.

Chatting with friends is different, as you are thinking aloud, and can see their reactions as they happen. If you can see that someone looks upset you can pull back, and you are likely to know friends' circumstances, so will avoid topics that are too close to home. We have no idea who is reading threads on here, and there are bound to be times when we read things that make us flinch a bit, and inadvertently write things that do the same to others.

I don't think that asking for sources of information (necessarily) means that anyone feels superior, though. If someone is basing what they say on the fact that little green men are controlling the earth from a spaceship on Hampstead Heath, people really do need to ask why they think that, and if the answer is that there was an article in 'Tall Stories Weekly' about it, also need to question the validity of the source.

I agree that there is no need to be rude, and also that bickering is tedious for others reading it. It can be difficult not to respond when someone is constantly needling you though, and we are all only human.

I guess we all have different tolerances of conflict, too. Some people (a different group from Some People ) hate any hint of disagreement, whilst others revel in a good ding dong then shake hands and go home happy, and there are numerous shades of grey between the two. Also, there are those who hate being disagreed with, and see it as a personal attack when none was intended.

Anyway, I agree with WWM2 that threads about 'Some People' make me feel uneasy. I always wonder if I am one of the ones being picked on, as I do post in N&P, and I do speak my mind, and I don't change it very often. Like WWM says, I'd far rather people said so if that's the case.

MaizieD

dragonfly46

The clue was in the title Maizie

So, having opened the thread and seen the video, which wasn't about people like you at all, why continue to post?

I really don't know and have been asking myself the same question!

I've been posting on here for a few years now, mainly on N & P, partly because I've been interested in politics since I was a teenager and joined the YCs, albeit briefly, for social reasons rather than political. As I'm now considered to be elderly or old I take a lot of notice of what is happening in the world, though mainly the UK and Europe.

I'm sure I'm not the only one to despair at the state of the UK at the moment and to hope that one day it will change. Sometimes it's hard to accept that some people still believe the government is following the right course and that everything will t urn out alright. What I do get cross about is when people post just their opinions with nothing to back them up. People who say that Brexit will be OK but don't say why. If a poster then takes issue with them, they go off in a huff and call it bullying. That is not bullying. You only have to listen to the discussions about Raab to learn what real bullying is.

Urmstongran

Whitewavemark2

Urmstongran

MerylStreep

Not everyone has a thick skin like Urmstongran.
If she stopped feeding them, they’d be stuffed.

Oh ‘eck! Maybe I ought to stop! 🤣

😄😄😄😄 like me you can’t help yourself. Besides it is fun.

It is! And I can’t. 🤣
However whilst getting ready to leave just now I got to thinking. (Dangerous for me). In future if I read an article that I find of interest I think I’m going to post it in ‘Chat’ not ‘News’. Kind of less forensic, more opinion based? Like what you’d do round a table with friends “did you see such and-such in the paper/on tv this morning?” No-one ever says about your opinion ‘can you give evidence/provide a link’ there! Might be a better way forward in a gentler way to encourage more of us to just ‘chat’ about topics.

Any thoughts?

You can run, but you can't hide, Ug

'Some people' will find you like a shot...

varian

Galaxy

It depends though doesnt it. If I came on and said I think eating cheese makes you more likely to support the monarchy then it perfectly reasonable for people to ask but is that true?

Exactly Galaxy. It is fine to have different opinions, but when someone makes a statement as if it were a proven fact, we should ask to see the evidence.

Many times in N&P threads statements which are controversial, and probably untrue, are made and the poster does not respond to a request for the statement to be substantiated.

I don't think a request to see the evidence that a claim which has been made is fact and not fiction, is harassment.

We have had a problem in recent years with some politicians, most notably Boris Johnson, having little respect for the truth, and getting away with it, but that shouldn't mean we can all just ignore facts which don't suit us. Reasonable political debate ought to be based on evidence.

Yes

dragonfly46

The clue was in the title Maizie

So, having opened the thread and seen the video, which wasn't about people like you at all, why continue to post?

Galaxy

It depends though doesnt it. If I came on and said I think eating cheese makes you more likely to support the monarchy then it perfectly reasonable for people to ask but is that true?

Exactly Galaxy. It is fine to have different opinions, but when someone makes a statement as if it were a proven fact, we should ask to see the evidence.

Many times in N&P threads statements which are controversial, and probably untrue, are made and the poster does not respond to a request for the statement to be substantiated.

I don't think a request to see the evidence that a claim which has been made is fact and not fiction, is harassment.

We have had a problem in recent years with some politicians, most notably Boris Johnson, having little respect for the truth, and getting away with it, but that shouldn't mean we can all just ignore facts which don't suit us. Reasonable political debate ought to be based on evidence.

Only on gn, kandinsky. In real life I love talking about N&P.

Kandinsky

robust debate?

Robust means strong & healthy.

There’s nothing healthy in being on the receiving end of condescending put downs.

No, I think the only way is to avoid N&P altogether.

I absolutely agree

robust debate?

Robust means strong & healthy.

There’s nothing healthy in being on the receiving end of condescending put downs.

No, I think the only way is to avoid N&P altogether.

It's immaterial really whether interested folks post on N & P or not.

Sounds to me like lots really do want to. But in a gentle, non dissecting, chat sort of way.

Galaxy

It depends though doesnt it. If I came on and said I think eating cheese makes you more likely to support the monarchy then it perfectly reasonable for people to ask but is that true?

That’s a brilliant thread right there Galaxy! 👑 🧀
Weave in a bit of Brexit and knitting and you’ve cracked it!