Capital Punishment

Not acceptable, no justification for it at all. For those that suggest that child murder does - well, my children are as precious to me now as when they were babies. Age does not diminish their worth to me and should not diminish their value to society.......otherwise we would have to do conclude the murder of the very old would carry no serious consequence at all.
Let us keep our country civilised.

Newdawn

Who would dare argue for the death sentence on a thread like this. I don't believe in it in principle but then I am not one of the three families who had a young daughter murdered by Lee Bellfield. Would any of you like to be looking after Lee Bellfield in prison?

You have no idea at all of who is on this thread or of what they have suffered in their life.

Would any of you like to be looking after Lee Bellfield in prison?

That's why we have prison officers.
In recent years some mass murderers have killed themselves in prison rather than face life sentences - showing they fear prison more than death. Dr Shipman was one.

GrammarGrandma

No. It condemns someone to be an executioner on behalf of the rest of us. Not acceptable.

The job's not a compulsory conscription position!!!
Albert Pierrepoint was our executioner until the abolition of capital punishment, it was a profession a skill and he was proud of the expertise and professionalism. He was widely regards as the world's premier at his profession, so when they needed someone to execute the filth of Nurmberg, his services were called upon and he did so quietly quickly and to everyone's relief and satisfaction, .
Should such sentence be appropriate today?
Moors murderers/Bellfield / cousins/anyone and everyone guilty of infanticide etc
Case rested. Folks need to stop being so naïve and uneducated as to exactly who would be eligible. Miscarriage of justices as seen pre DNA and forensic science days would not occur now. The element of any doubts rendering a not guilty or non proven case will still apply. It's just that it's thankfully so very much more difficult to "get away" with crimes now. We should think long and hard what the definition of 'civilised' actually is?

I don't see anyone suggested only child crimes being punished this? Conclusion jumping.

Georgesgran

Well said Urms. I take great exception to those comments Riverwalk. May I then assume you’re a Southern Softie?
Anyway, I’m off to find my flat cap and feed the whippets!

I take exception too. Old, northern and ill educated - thanks! Disgraceful generalisation.

Yes…After the despicable murder of that poor lad Drummer Lee Rigby. The perpetrators were quite happy to flaunt their guilt so why would you not want an eye for an eye? Why should we have to pay for this scum to remain in our prison system? Too many of the bleeding hearts brigade in this country. We’ve become a joke!

For me, absolutely none irrespective of the crime ! It’s not a deterrent and it’s awful if a mistake is made and also, whilst not religious, I actually don’t believe anyone has the right to take anyone else’s life.

Having said that, our own UK sentences really needs reviewing - violent crimes should be long sentences and life should mean life and more many other crimes is not put people into prison, I’d issue long community sentences and try to make the penalty fit the crime. I also believe rehabilitation is very important.

bevisp1

I think here in the UK, we as a country are too soft on convicts, criminals etc, becoming a lawless society I read, and I believe so. It doesn’t help that the police force has been drastically reduced over the last years. Some people are getting away with ‘murder’ excuse the pun. About time something was done before all the jails become even more so overcrowded.

Yes that's another fact, we struggle on with clapped out Victorian (or older!!) Gaols upgrading piecemeal with extensions new wings new paint....... And refuse to allow new purpose built facilities that could should and would provide secured incarceration with rehabilitation facilities and start trying to get what are many lost causes turned to minor crimes for lack of alternatives, on the right track.mammouth task as jobs and housing (total lack of) are at the root causes of so many crimes, drugs at the heart of most minor crimes, and our failure to be realistic about what we need to pay for a safe thriving society by succession of career driven governments, it is costing us dearly.

can I just say any one who hurts or kills a child, who can not help them selves or save them self is not fit for any thing but hanging . sorry but uk too soft on criminals of any sort.

the death sence shpuld be brought back as knife crime in this country is now getting out of control and ther largest amount in in the youngrern generation it should be a minimum 10 years if you ate carring a knife or wepon and the death penity if you take the life of someone we mut show people if you carry awny wepon the tawe will punish you then maybe these people woll think twice before the attack any one this is the only way to stop people being killed

fordk4

the death sence shpuld be brought back as knife crime in this country is now getting out of control and ther largest amount in in the youngrern generation it should be a minimum 10 years if you ate carring a knife or wepon and the death penity if you take the life of someone we mut show people if you carry awny wepon the tawe will punish you then maybe these people woll think twice before the attack any one this is the only way to stop people being killed

Check your spelling m'dear hardly deciphered your post!😅

Iam64

*don’t you think we should ask why our country has more prisoners per head of population than nearly all other first world countries*
Yes we should and many of us do. Our current government did its best to destroy any service that provided support to people who are in a trajectory to imprisonment. Their answer appears to be building more prisons.

Maybe, just maybe it's because we have a better catch rate? Thought of that? And a better legal system? And better police? I'd be very worried if we had the crime we do and the prison population was dropping!! Your assumption is Nonsensical and not factual

Varian- we don't! Next question?

To the couple of new, strong advocates of capital punishment; it is not a deterrent. The prisons are full of people who thought they wouldn't get caught.

Not likely. Murderers murder. All do what they do and very very rarely kill, it's a special crime and unless accidentally burglars don't kill neither do rapists etc. If the intention is there, ones own children will kill us without being guilty of anything else!
Assuming they'll take the "may as well be hung for a horse as a sheep" tack is unfounded

Dinahmo

I can't imagine that Carrick will survive his life sentence in prison. I think he's made some attempts at suicide already although half heartedly. Being an ex policeman and a sex offender there will be several other prisoners who will try to get at him.

He'll be on segregated wing reserve for ex job prisoners. Not necessarily for his safety as much as the avoidance of attempts to kill /attack him which have to b managed by the staff, they don't set store by keeping him safe more o keep the peace overall. He didn't kill anyway so he wouldn't be subjected to death penalty.

Anniebach

Timothy Evans. Derek Bentley and many others , innocent but
hanged

And both terrible cases of their times. No assessment no forensics no proper defence no chance. Thankfully not the case now.

No, because there is a chance of a mistaken conviction, many of which are now well-documented.

It's a relief to see that most of the people posting on this thread are clear that the death penalty is beyond unacceptable. If we think killing people is wrong - why would we kill someone for killing someone?

For the record: I would not support capital punishment, I just try to rationalise and dispel misconceptions about how it all works. There are so many untruths and madey uppy "facts" out there that the mob are increasingly at risk of being corralled by those who seek to use our humanity against us , we all abhor the disgusting criminals who afflict society, we need to bite the bullet and make sure we deal with the consequences in an effective and socially acceptable manner, and not keep doing things "on the cheap" .justice should be a cross party issue same as NHS in the interest of stability continuity and successful outcomes for society in general.no fear.no favour.no egos.

fordk4

the death sence shpuld be brought back as knife crime in this country is now getting out of control and ther largest amount in in the youngrern generation it should be a minimum 10 years if you ate carring a knife or wepon and the death penity if you take the life of someone we mut show people if you carry awny wepon the tawe will punish you then maybe these people woll think twice before the attack any one this is the only way to stop people being killed

Can you explain - and show any evidence - why you believe the death penalty is a deterrent, when experience from around the world suggests otherwise?

For example, prior to the Canada abolishing the death penalty in 1976, the reported murder rate was going up; it fell steadily afterwards, so that 25 years on it was down 43%. There have been even larger declines of up to 60% in the homicide rate in countries of Central and Eastern Europe after they scrapped the death penalty in the 1990s.

However, if you have evidence to show differently, I’d be interested to see it.

Obviously, it’d be worth exploring, before blithely suggesting we let the state murder young people, why there has been an increase in knife crime, but that’s not the topic of this thread.

The death penalty here in the Uk was abolished in 1965. The executioner Albert Pierrepoint said in his autobiography in 1974 that he didn’t think it was a deterrent.

No never. As Albert Camus wrote, capital punishment is the most premeditated of murders.

Just to nitpick (since a few posts mention the mid-60s): the death penalty in the UK was abolished in 1998. The death penalty for murder was suspended in 1965 and abolished in 1969 in Great Britain and 1973 in Northern Ireland. It remained in place for espionage until 1981, and for treason and mutiny until 1998.