The reason Labour keeps its cards close to its chest.

I really think the reason Labour have kept their cards close to their chest throughout Covid is because there is no easy solution so let the other lot get the job. They never came up with one suggestion but criticised every move..
We are not in a good place, this government has made mistakes, everyone knows that, but we have had Brexit, which was voted for democratically so it had to be implemented at the same time as Covid, which we must live with now. It didn’t help that,people who didn’t want democracy in UK trying to derail the process because they thought those that didn’t vote didn’t understand! What a lot of time and money those cost the country.Challenging democracy which is what every sane person wants.,
There has been a lot done right through all this, the financial help, to help all of us through a crisis, which I am grateful for, to avoid a recession we cannot borrow ourselves anymore out of this. There is light if we hold on and yes Labour will get in next time,as we can’t just have the same party going on and on. Everything runs it’s course.People don’t forget the note left in the treasury, coffers empty, your problem. That sums up Labour to me. They will come in throwing grants and money around and it all starts again,which we will all grab.. Labour is nothing like it was anymore it’s not for the working man, run by people that understand them, it doesn’t bother me anymore because everything just goes full circle, this party or that one., Politics is a dirty business and there’s always those that want to do it. The trouble is we need them as we would all be running round like headless chickens rather than the government.

I disagree. Unlike most politicians Keir has made it clear that at times of national crisis he will support the government in every way possible. Here we go again, the note left in the treasury. I mentioned that on another thread. It was a joke. It’s what government departments do. It should never have been waved around by Cameron. But he did know that people were gullible enough to not realise it had been a joke!

The social and economic conditions upon which the original Labour Movement was built have changed so fundamentally it is realistic to expect the party to be a very different one (indeed, all parties to be different from 30 or 50 years ago.

Working men and women - from all groups except "upper echelons" now face completely different situations at work and in family life and in retirement.

Terms and conditions at work, the nature of work (ie away from big industrial units, where one had lifelong work, pensions) to fragmented workplaces, many with short term contracts or indeed no contracts as such.

It would be both unrealistic and unwise for the Labour Party to produce what many seem to "demand" - ie, an election manifesto. they have and can outlined policies carefully where they feel it is appropriate. In the current fluid situation we should expect an election manifesto to be produced - before an election!

What I would like to see is a revamped updated form of Sure Start, it was such an imaginative and effective idea to help disadvantaged children, and we need it more than ever now since the Tories have ensured a rise in child poverty, huge cuts to the education budget and a full scale onslaught to Sure Start over the decade they have been in power.

In France Childcare is available from 2 months old up to
pre-school at 3 which is state financed.

There is quite a considerable crisis in staffing of the early years sector at the moment, it would be vaguely helpful if that was tackled.

The Princess of Wales is pushing the importance of children's early years too. It's a hot issue, quite rightly.

I can see exactly where this stolen 'initiative' will go under the Tories (the jaded experience of being old). They'll bring it in but still expect childcare workers to accept zero hours contracts and minimum wage. Then they'll wonder why staff aren't available and complain no one wants to work anymore. And do a further crack down on benefits.

Standard Tory playbook.

Is the infrastructure there to do this? And is any government prepared to pay what it costs? Not so easy in practice.

The biggest difficulty is staff.

The money is there and the infrastructure is a bit more difficult as the b….y Tories sold much of that, which has resulted in a less than ideal service. So much of what was good, like integrated childcare, pre-school, social service involvement, parental help etc has gone.

Starmer is not silent about what he won't do, especially rejoining the EU or at least restoring freedom of movement because he doesn't want to upset the trades unions. Meanwhile we have a worker shortage (which suits the TUs) in the NHS, social care, hospitality, etc., and UK nationals who want to work or live in Europe face a visa problem. The Tories are just as bad because they play the immigration card when they should be increasing immigration for economic reasons.

That racist card has resulted in the far right setting fire to a police van outside a hotel used for those seeking refuge.

Braverman will be proud of her followers.

Got to love the "Sir" Keir saying he'd rather have another 5 years of Tory rule than work with the SNP if they are the second largest party in WM ....lol.We have long said that Labour are just tories in red rosettes ,,,,proven by this remark on a London radio show this week .
Thing is IS "SIR"Keir old chap ...we dont want to work with you we want out of your toxic union ,do you even know that the core policy of the Labour party at its inception was Home Rule for Scotland...apparently not .No surprise there !!

Why have you put Sir in brackets paddyann54, he is a Sir, like it or not - doing that says more about you than it does about him?
I do appreciate that the SNP are concerned about the rise in popularity of Labour in Scotland, but that isn’t the way to win friends and influence people, it weakens your argument.

paddyann54

Got to love the "Sir" Keir saying he'd rather have another 5 years of Tory rule than work with the SNP if they are the second largest party in WM ....lol.We have long said that Labour are just tories in red rosettes ,,,,proven by this remark on a London radio show this week .
Thing is IS "SIR"Keir old chap ...we dont want to work with you we want out of your toxic union ,do you even know that the core policy of the Labour party at its inception was Home Rule for Scotland...apparently not .No surprise there !!

How unpleasant…

Oh dear paddyanne. What an unneccessarily unpleasant post.

The rise in popularity of labour is just fictional in the media,speak to the people on our streets for the truth .Much more socialist here as very recent polls show,poverty has and is being tackled here unlike by red or blue tories elsewhere in this empire obsessed UK ....not obsessed? Then why Empire medals creating class division ?
Apart from his lack of knowledge of Labour policy( my GM was one of the first Labour women members in Scotland so I know this by rote) His support of the Israeli State is a worry for many of us who are supporters of the Palestinian people .
Keir is a massive disappointment to my Labour and Scottish Socialist party friends of whom I have many .

I don't see why the fact that the Conservatives copy Labour policies means that Labour is reluctant to say what they want to do.
Surely it is better for Labour to say that they are the party with ideas e.g. more childcare, and that the Conservatives have no ideas of their own, so have to go for watered down versions of Labour ideas.

paddyann54

The rise in popularity of labour is just fictional in the media,speak to the people on our streets for the truth .Much more socialist here as very recent polls show,poverty has and is being tackled here unlike by red or blue tories elsewhere in this empire obsessed UK ....not obsessed? Then why Empire medals creating class division ?
Apart from his lack of knowledge of Labour policy( my GM was one of the first Labour women members in Scotland so I know this by rote) His support of the Israeli State is a worry for many of us who are supporters of the Palestinian people .
Keir is a massive disappointment to my Labour and Scottish Socialist party friends of whom I have many .

Sorry, but what you have said denying the rising popularity of Labour is anecdote paddyann54, it’s not what the many recent opinion polls are saying. If you feel better believing what you say, it’s up to you, but it’s not the reality. I’m a realist, I know it isn’t likely that the current polls will reflect the outcome of a general election - but as a snapshot in time, it’s correct. One poll, two polls, maybe not - but if many say the same then it likely is correct.

Allsorts

I really think the reason Labour have kept their cards close to their chest throughout Covid is because there is no easy solution so let the other lot get the job. They never came up with one suggestion but criticised every move..
We are not in a good place, this government has made mistakes, everyone knows that, but we have had Brexit, which was voted for democratically so it had to be implemented at the same time as Covid, which we must live with now. It didn’t help that,people who didn’t want democracy in UK trying to derail the process because they thought those that didn’t vote didn’t understand! What a lot of time and money those cost the country.Challenging democracy which is what every sane person wants.,
There has been a lot done right through all this, the financial help, to help all of us through a crisis, which I am grateful for, to avoid a recession we cannot borrow ourselves anymore out of this. There is light if we hold on and yes Labour will get in next time,as we can’t just have the same party going on and on. Everything runs it’s course.People don’t forget the note left in the treasury, coffers empty, your problem. That sums up Labour to me. They will come in throwing grants and money around and it all starts again,which we will all grab.. Labour is nothing like it was anymore it’s not for the working man, run by people that understand them, it doesn’t bother me anymore because everything just goes full circle, this party or that one., Politics is a dirty business and there’s always those that want to do it. The trouble is we need them as we would all be running round like headless chickens rather than the government.

Hallelujah. Someone else that sees the truth of it all. Yes, we’ll get Labour at the next election but it’ll be a short lived romance.

Whitewavemark2

That racist card has resulted in the far right setting fire to a police van outside a hotel used for those seeking refuge.

Braverman will be proud of her followers.

I don’t think is anything to do with the colour of anyones skin. I’m sure it’s down to a bunch of unoccupied young males mainly from societies where women are subdued not being socialised into British ways, seeing women and thinking they’re easy as they don’t behave like women do at home. Why the woman from Care4Calais on the news this lunchtime can’t see that is beyond me.
Yes, I suspect some rentamob became involved, but if your wife, daughter or sister cannot go about life without fear of inappropriate approach, I get their angst.
I have no gripe with any other, but live by our rules.

Brexit has been an utter disaster and never delivered the money on the side of the bus for the NHS. It was simply a vehicle for Johnson to gain power and create more mess ups. His claim to have dealt with Covid is without merit: the vaccines were developed by scientists and the vaccination programme organised by Bingham and the NHS. Johnson's government wasted billions on inadequate PPE, most of which has been written off.

The Labour Party does NOT support the actions of the Israeli State in taking over and oppressing Palestinians.

It is making a huge mistake of thinking that opposing anti-semitism is equal to supporting the State of Palestine.
I am active in both the Labour Party and as a Quaker in making this distinction.

In my CLP we have had problems with some Labour Party member conflating being Jewish with being a supporter of the oppressive Israeli state. this conflation used to regularly appear in motions from the CLP to Party HQ, ie as in statements like "Oppose Jewish aggression" No, no, no.
Oppose Israeli State Aggression, yes.

Correction: or

"It is making a huge mistake of thinking that opposing anti-semitism is equal to supporting the State of Palestine."

but

"It is making a huge mistake of thinking that opposing anti-semitism is equal to supporting the State of Israel"