The reason Labour keeps its cards close to its chest.

I believe Uganda was discussed as a possible homeland at one stage - shame that Rwanda was under Belgian control at the time.

growstuff

It wasn't just the British. We just happened to have the biggest empire and used to be the most powerful country in the world.

One of the reasons the western governments, including the US, wanted a Jewish "homeland" was that they disliked the immigration of Jews fleeing Russia, where they were being persecuted. They thought it was acceptable to export the problem. Nothing changes very much!

Indeed, I can remember reading of the resistance to accepting Jewish refugees pre and post ww2 in the USA.

It’s good to see the history of Israel and the British empire discussed like this.

Indeed, growstuff.

I can recall so clearly the atlas we used in primary school - huge areas of pink. Somewhere at the bottom it mentioned "Commonwealth" instead of "Empire" but the impression was clearly there.

It needed my aware parents to explain the consequences of "lines drawn" without thought at times for the peoples in the area, especially the then recent (1947) division of India and Pakistan.

So many troubles caused by the inability of many to let go the idea of being Terribly Important.

It wasn't just the British. We just happened to have the biggest empire and used to be the most powerful country in the world.

One of the reasons the western governments, including the US, wanted a Jewish "homeland" was that they disliked the immigration of Jews fleeing Russia, where they were being persecuted. They thought it was acceptable to export the problem. Nothing changes very much!

You only have to look at the continent of Africa and how the countries are divided to understand the British action and its dreadful consequences. Everywhere we touched seemed to have caused misery and suffering on an epic scale.

MaizieD

WRT Israel, I'm reading a biography of Gertrude Bell, who was highly influential in the 'division' of the Middle East after WW1 in the wake of the defeat of the Ottoman Empire.

It is mentioned that the Jews had been looking for somewhere to set up a 'homeland' for some time before WW1, they'd even thought of buying a chunk of Africa (Rwanda, IIRC). Apparently Lloyd George suggested that they should be 'given' Palestine, where many Jews already lived alongside the Arab population. Totally, it seems, disregarding the fact that Palestine was not an 'empty space' but was already populated. Typical 'empire' thinking; that a land could just be taken over regardless of its existing inhabitants..
It does feel that Israel has never lost this mentality. So desperately out of date in the 21st C.

( Gertrude Bell was an extraordinary woman, BTW)

The Balfour Declaration, which announced British support for the establishment of a "national home for the Jewish people" in Palestine, was published in 1917 and was formalized in 1923. Subsequent British governments kept kicking it into the long grass. They probably thought that people would forget about it, but it opened the floodgates and far from being forgotten about, it was used after WW2 to set up the state of Israel.

In the inter-war years, Britain still thought of the world as its empire and thought it could draw arbitrary lines on a map and couldn't have cared less about the people already living in the area.

Having seen comments on Twitter from the "patriots" who support and egg on the thugs who carried out the attack, it seems they are the ones who are unsocialised and have too much time on their hands. I wouldn't mind betting some of them don't show much respect to women either. They're looking for scapegoats for their own inadequacy.

And yes, Maizie

Hear hear, growstuff

WRT Israel, I'm reading a biography of Gertrude Bell, who was highly influential in the 'division' of the Middle East after WW1 in the wake of the defeat of the Ottoman Empire.

It is mentioned that the Jews had been looking for somewhere to set up a 'homeland' for some time before WW1, they'd even thought of buying a chunk of Africa (Rwanda, IIRC). Apparently Lloyd George suggested that they should be 'given' Palestine, where many Jews already lived alongside the Arab population. Totally, it seems, disregarding the fact that Palestine was not an 'empty space' but was already populated. Typical 'empire' thinking; that a land could just be taken over regardless of its existing inhabitants..
It does feel that Israel has never lost this mentality. So desperately out of date in the 21st C.

( Gertrude Bell was an extraordinary woman, BTW)

The rhetoric of 'illegals' and 'invasions' coming from our Home Secretary is nothing more than validation for the racist mob.

Has she condemned last night's riot?

ExperiencedNotOld

Whitewavemark2

That racist card has resulted in the far right setting fire to a police van outside a hotel used for those seeking refuge.

Braverman will be proud of her followers.

I don’t think is anything to do with the colour of anyones skin. I’m sure it’s down to a bunch of unoccupied young males mainly from societies where women are subdued not being socialised into British ways, seeing women and thinking they’re easy as they don’t behave like women do at home. Why the woman from Care4Calais on the news this lunchtime can’t see that is beyond me.
Yes, I suspect some rentamob became involved, but if your wife, daughter or sister cannot go about life without fear of inappropriate approach, I get their angst.
I have no gripe with any other, but live by our rules.

It is everything to do with bigotry about people from another culture/country.

The incident in Knowsley was triggered by a 15 year old posting a video of a man hassling her for her phone number. The man was allegedly staying at the hotel which was attacked.

That kind of behaviour isn't the prerogative of asylum seekers. I wouldn't mind betting that many teenagers/young women have been hassled in a similar way by British-born men and on holiday. Attacks on whole groups of people aren't the result.

I'm not claiming for one moment that the behaviour is right, but let's not pretend that it's only asylum-seeking males who do it.

A whole group of people have been made afraid by ignorant people who have assumed they are all the same and others who condone their actions by claiming they're not "socialised".

Oreo

They must be thickos if they can’t tell the difference.

No, ideologues with fixed notions. Some very bright. and the fact remains that the Palestinians are pushed out of homes, jobs, access to clean water, and the best agricultural and other natural resources. its bitter, and for years and years has been this totally distressing and inhumane process. but that doesn't mean that your blame Jewish people as such as many do not support the Israeli regime.

Donald Trump's support for the military might of the Israeli government didnt help

There are very grey areas when it comes to how much you support Hammas. It has a social service wing, Dawah, and a military wing, the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades.

Its a heart breaking conflict, for the Israeli State was set up after the horrors of the holocaust after world War 2, and Great Britain had a hand in it as it was previously British Empire territory and the "solution" imposed upon the Palestinian people. Partly because "we" - or anti semitism in the UK -- didn't want more refugees.

I don’t mind at all if the Tories steal ideas or policies from Labour as long as they’re good ones.Anything that benefits the nation is welcome.

They must be thickos if they can’t tell the difference.

Wyllow3

The Labour Party does NOT support the actions of the Israeli State in taking over and oppressing Palestinians.

It is making a huge mistake of thinking that opposing anti-semitism is equal to supporting the State of Palestine.
I am active in both the Labour Party and as a Quaker in making this distinction.

In my CLP we have had problems with some Labour Party member conflating being Jewish with being a supporter of the oppressive Israeli state. this conflation used to regularly appear in motions from the CLP to Party HQ, ie as in statements like "Oppose Jewish aggression" No, no, no.
Oppose Israeli State Aggression, yes.

Exactly so Wyllow3.

Yammy if you google Labour Party Press releases you will see any up to date statements they've made.

ah, I goggled the Times article. I ca't get into the full article, but this is the actual title.

"Tony Blair warned Keir Starmer of left-wing threats during Davos meet up"

That is not what you said the article was about! Blair is talking about the minority of ex-Corbynistas who are trying to derail more middleground Labour Policies.

Kamiso

MayBee70

I disagree. Unlike most politicians Keir has made it clear that at times of national crisis he will support the government in every way possible. Here we go again, the note left in the treasury. I mentioned that on another thread. It was a joke. It’s what government departments do. It should never have been waved around by Cameron. But he did know that people were gullible enough to not realise it had been a joke!

A very sick joke in that case for many of us! Not even remotely funny and horrifying for most of the population.

It wasn't even true, Kamiso.

It's a 'joke' that has been made before at the changeover from one governing party to another. Don't blame the departing minister who made it. Blame the incoming PM who weaponised it. And then inflicted needless cuts to state spending.

MayBee70

I disagree. Unlike most politicians Keir has made it clear that at times of national crisis he will support the government in every way possible. Here we go again, the note left in the treasury. I mentioned that on another thread. It was a joke. It’s what government departments do. It should never have been waved around by Cameron. But he did know that people were gullible enough to not realise it had been a joke!

A very sick joke in that case for many of us! Not even remotely funny and horrifying for most of the population.

Wyllow3

Yammy
I don't doubt your reporting the Times - but I'd need more detail to consider what he is actually suggesting not one line, can you provide an accessible link please?

It might be a good idea if the government actually engages with the unions not hide behind out of date pay review body recommendations. It might be a good idea if the government sat down with the TUC to try and work on the situation as a whole instead of just instigating anti-strike actions as a response when they have not actually properly engaged.

You don't know what their policies are I don't know, how can anyone compare? It's just today's Times nothing special.
We got a Newsletter from Tim Farron this week as a floating voter he certainly made me think.

I can't believe that Blair actually said that. Can we have a transcript of what was actually reported in the Times article?

Yammy
I don't doubt your reporting the Times - but I'd need more detail to consider what he is actually suggesting not one line, can you provide an accessible link please?

It might be a good idea if the government actually engages with the unions not hide behind out of date pay review body recommendations. It might be a good idea if the government sat down with the TUC to try and work on the situation as a whole instead of just instigating anti-strike actions as a response when they have not actually properly engaged.

I could throw a cat amongst the pigeons and say it's because they haven't really got any firm ones themselves. How do we Know?
Today Tony Blair in the Times said they need to get the Unions under control before they can make a move.

Correction: or

"It is making a huge mistake of thinking that opposing anti-semitism is equal to supporting the State of Palestine."

but

"It is making a huge mistake of thinking that opposing anti-semitism is equal to supporting the State of Israel"