Glimmer of light at the end of the Brexit tunnel? Or did I dream it?

winterwhite

Please don't rant like this, Maizie, it 's annoying. Surely no one disagrees that the government needs to put much more money into public services.
But as Grantanow says, we're primarily discussing the importance of all sides acknowledging the need to negotiate a new way forward with the EU. Not every thread needs to end up knee deep in public sector finance.

Apologies, winterwhite, but he actually started it with his comment about Blair and not having enough income to support our public services.

I have said my piece and will refrain from further derailing.

Please don't rant like this, Maizie, it 's annoying. Surely no one disagrees that the government needs to put much more money into public services.
But as Grantanow says, we're primarily discussing the importance of all sides acknowledging the need to negotiate a new way forward with the EU. Not every thread needs to end up knee deep in public sector finance.

Not back to front. We need both public capital investment in infrastructure and services and inward private sector investment in business, otherwise the tax take won't grow and pay for public services.

We won't get any private sector investment until they know there is profit to be made in the UK.

Where do profits originate?

Do I have to say this in capital letters? The public sector buys all its goods and services from the private sector. Public sector employees spend their wages in the private sector. Just about every single one of these economic activities is TAXED. Where does the tax go?

Why do people's ability to reason desert them when it comes to talking about public spending?

Just imagine if the government get back in😄😄😄😄.

Not back to front. We need both public capital investment in infrastructure and services and inward private sector investment in business, otherwise the tax take won't grow and pay for public services. The Tories are reluctant spenders in the public zone except for flagship projects. Our attraction for foreign investment has been damaged by Truss and by political infighting which deters investors. Brexit, of course, has done serious damage to our trade and as a priority we need to negotiate a way forward with the EU.

The Brexiteers made the bed, Juliet, and everyone else is having to lie on it.
Yes Winterwhite, the ‘we’ in my comment certainly didn’t include me.

We know that of course Fleurpepper. I don’t think many would suggest that Corbyn could have managed the situation, but then he was never in the position to anyway, was he, so it’s hypothetical?
I do think there is hope though, the clock is ticking fast on this government.

We have to face facts that whomever takes over at the next election, will inherit a massively depleted and impoverished UK. I am sure not even Corbyn could have managed this so well!

On the bright side, there is only an absolute maximum of 685 days left of this government. The countdown is on. There is still hope.

MaizieD

^The economic growth we once had under Blair has to be regained so we have enough taxation income to support the public services we need.^

You've got it back to front, Grantnow. The only way we are going to improve our economy is by government investment in public services. They are a significant engine for growth, through their use of private enterprises to supply all the goods and services they need and through the buying power of the people they employ. State investment will grow our tax take. No-one else is going to invest in the UK; if the government doesn't we're completely b*ggered.

Absolutely agree MaizieD.
That is the only glimmer of hope the UK has at the moment.
I don't think that this government is going to deliver that though.

P.S, Grantnow. I'll remind you that Blair put significant investment into public services...

The economic growth we once had under Blair has to be regained so we have enough taxation income to support the public services we need.

You've got it back to front, Grantnow. The only way we are going to improve our economy is by government investment in public services. They are a significant engine for growth, through their use of private enterprises to supply all the goods and services they need and through the buying power of the people they employ. State investment will grow our tax take. No-one else is going to invest in the UK; if the government doesn't we're completely b*ggered.

Thanks, Fleurpepper, of course you're quite right, especially since the referendum was intended to be an indicative not mandatory vote. I can't remember at what point it became The Will Of The People and thus immutable.

Fleurpepper

Great post winterwhite. But I disagree with this bit 'The deal that was delivered was a far cry from what was voted for in the referendum,

since no one, not you, not me, not the Leavers, nor the Governement at the time, nor the Governements since, knew what it was- as it was never defined, and all the promises made, often contradictory, turned out to be lies - it is not actually 'a far cry from...' - to be such, you would need to know what it was supposed to be first. And NO-ONE, but NO-ONE knew.

Just what I was about to say, Fleurpepper!

I think there is a lot of scope for improving relations with the EU and at least making the UK look like a sensible actor again.

See www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/feb/11/revealed-secret-cross-party-summit-held-to-confront-failings-of-brexit?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

At last someone is using their brain and hopefully without all the 'f*ck business', blaming the French, blaming the EU for decisions our Ministers voted for at Council, etc., associated with Johnson and the rest of the backwoodsmen. It will take years to dig the UK out of the economic hole. The economic growth we once had under Blair has to be regained so we have enough taxation income to support the public services we need. Flag waving won't pay for that.

But Ditchley Park meetings on a range of topics are not unusual and one should not hope for too much.

Great post winterwhite. But I disagree with this bit 'The deal that was delivered was a far cry from what was voted for in the referendum,

since no one, not you, not me, not the Leavers, nor the Governement at the time, nor the Governements since, knew what it was- as it was never defined, and all the promises made, often contradictory, turned out to be lies - it is not actually 'a far cry from...' - to be such, you would need to know what it was supposed to be first. And NO-ONE, but NO-ONE knew.

The meeting was not about rejoining the EU. Norah's point that "The EU has little interest in further wrangling over brexit and very little time is being devoted to the relationship with the UK" was made in the Observer article as mutually understood common ground.
The meeting was about recognising that Brexit has not brought the economic advantages to the UK that were so confidently anticipated and what to do about it.

The Brexiteers made the bed, Juliet, and everyone else is having to lie on it. The deal that was delivered was a far cry from what was voted for in the referendum and there is no getting away from that, just as there is little future in trying to put the clock back.

Indeed!! ‘We’ made our bed.

Whilst I can understand the desperation of the UK to somehow find a way to mitigate the huge damage caused by brexit, they are forgetting one major obstacle, The EU has little interest in further wrangling over brexit and very little time being devoted to the relationship with the UK. Brexit stopped being a thing at the end of January 2020, the UK is out, end of. There is much more focus now on an economic alliance with the US. The US interest in a deal with the UK was only attractive when the US saw it as being a gateway to the EU, a much bigger prize for them.
The EU is way past brexit and are focusing on other things and some groups in the UK would be wise to recognize that.

I suppose it may have been intended to be but not reported as such - no sense of a great scoop and sounds too high key with too many attendees to be hole-in-corner.
And secret in the sense of no reporting.

Wasn’t it a secret meeting ???