Politics are moderating in the U.K.

A personality driven demand for success has been political madness for some years. Let’s bring back good old quiet intelligence. We need to listen to common sense driven by the needs of the country and not the self interest of members of a political party. We need an Attlee who was around when we needed him most so let us hope that Keir Starmer will be elected and we can have a steady, non corrupt government set on doing their best for this damaged economy and the welfare of its people.

Yes please Lovetopaint037! BTW what's your hobby?

Glorianny

DaisyAnne

Glorianny

DaisyAnne

Ilovecheese

The way he won't even support the nurses, after all they did for us, makes me want to weep.

I've a feeling you need either your eyes or your ears or possibly both, testing. Or you simply like making up what has been said - when it hasn't.

Starmer has supported the nurses. He isn't in power so he can't change their incomes.

Three times he refused to say he would stand on picket lines with them www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/keir-starmer-labour-nhs-nurses-strike-picket-b2197178.html
How is that "supporting them"?

How would it be "supporting" them.

Would it get the NHS more money and a better system? Would it stop people leaving the NHS? Would it do anything but gather a few extremist votes to get him and his government into power where he could actually do something?

No. It would be as useful as a chocolate fireguard.

I'm sure the nurses standing on picket lines would regard Starmer's presence as better than "a chocolate fireguard" it might give them confidence that under Labour things would change. But maybe that's why he won't do it, because they won't.
There's a saying about justice needing to be seen to be done. In this case Starmer's commitment needs to be seen to be done.

Maybe some would, but you are diving back into personality politics - in which fewer and fewer appear to believe. If I were a nurse, I would rather he did all he could to challenge the government in Parliament, where the laws are made. I would also expect him to be working on having a future government that would be able to support the NHS. But perhaps Labour is not up to that? Acting as a TV personality is not a long-term answer. I am sure at least some of the nurses are intelligent enough to know that.

I think you are back into the extremes of how to do politics where you think you can dictate to the politicians because you know better than they do. How's that worked recently? Oh, and why not throw in a revolution for good measure? They work, don't they

Since when was standing on a picket line extremism? Honestly the drift to the right and the condemnation of what are simply political, non-confrontational acts makes me very worried about the sort of state we are becoming.

Glorianny

Since when was standing on a picket line extremism? Honestly the drift to the right and the condemnation of what are simply political, non-confrontational acts makes me very worried about the sort of state we are becoming.

I didn't say it was Glorianny. If you cannot discuss without twisting others words it is probably time to stop trying.

Well Starmer can't "challenge parliament" because the Tories have a large majority.
Standing on a picket line isn't personality politics. It has been a Labour party tradition and many Labour MPs have done it.
It wouldn't stop Starmer doing any of the things your suggest he should be doing

Public sector workers don’t need Starmer standing on a picket line to convince them that they would be better off under a Labour Government Glorianny, they already know that. The world has moved on, although it appears that not everybody has noticed.

They might not need him to show solidarity with them, but it would have been a really nice gesture that would not have damaged him in any way.

Will they be better off with Keir Starmer as prime minister though?

Ilovecheese

Will they be better off with Keir Starmer as prime minister though?

Compared with who? Are you actually saying that you think Rishi Sunak or Boris Johnson is a better bet to lead the country?

No, but Rachel Reeves follows the so called "handbag economic s" of George Osborne and is quite likely to say that the country " can't afford" pay rises that are in line with inflation.

I think generally people who think there would be no difference are those who dont need a labour government.

"They're all the same" is the last resort of right wing commentators when their previous claims have been shot down in flames by the evidence that the Tories are corrupt, incompetent and responsible for thirteen years of chaos.

Glorianny

Well Starmer can't "challenge parliament" because the Tories have a large majority.
Standing on a picket line isn't personality politics. It has been a Labour party tradition and many Labour MPs have done it.
It wouldn't stop Starmer doing any of the things your suggest he should be doing

That is your opinion Glorianny, nothing more, nothing less.

I understand that you don't think anyone can have a different one, but they do. I do, and others do. There is nothing you can do to stop them from holding those opinions.

It would help if you changed your language to reflect this as your views, not words written on tablets of stone and handed down to you.

But I won't hold my breath.

Ilovecheese

No, but Rachel Reeves follows the so called "handbag economic s" of George Osborne and is quite likely to say that the country " can't afford" pay rises that are in line with inflation.

Is she?

Ilovecheese

They might not need him to show solidarity with them, but it would have been a really nice gesture that would not have damaged him in any way.

He can't afford to use his political capital in that way. He may want to, but he is constrained by the circumstances he is in.

Personally, I'm not sure I would find it statesmanlike and we are in sore need of proper statesmen and women.

Casdon

Public sector workers don’t need Starmer standing on a picket line to convince them that they would be better off under a Labour Government Glorianny, they already know that. The world has moved on, although it appears that not everybody has noticed.

It wouldn’t be a good political move for Keir Starmer to stand around on picket lines. The public then think that he supports them being out of the hospitals, which he may do privately but if it’s you losing an appointment or a procedure it will become a vote loser.That’s why he doesn’t want his MP’s on picket lines, again it looks as if Labour doesn’t care about the economy and everyone working. In any case it wouldn’t make any difference to the pay of public workers.
Personally I think the government is mad to not intervene and
Sort out the nurses pay rise, and ambulance workers as well.
10% should be offered IMHO.

This is a great summing up of why Starmer is wrong, the historic involvement of MPs in strikes, with a great comment from Tony Benn. Well worth a read unherd.com/2022/08/how-labour-abandoned-the-unions/

We don’t have Democracy, we have Capitalism. Money talks and that is why energy companies are ripping off customers to make unprecedented profits, and water companies have until 2030 to stop pouring raw sewage into our rivers and seas. There was an orchestrated campaign against Corbyn who threatened the established order because he wanted ordinary people to benefit from the wealth our country generates. He wasn’t a Marxist as the brown nosed, brain dead and biased media painted him. There is even evidence that the whole anti-semitism was cooked up to expel him from the Labour Party - because the majority of Labour Party members wanted him, with party numbers being higer than they had ever been. It is a fallacy to say ‘If you don’t vote you can’t complain’ - I live in an overwhelmingly Conservative area, so it matters not who I vote for, or even if I vote at all. There IS enough money to pay our public services decent wages, we just have to collect it from overseas tax havens and huge corporations telling HMRC what they want to pay.

Eh? Democracy and capitalism aren't mutually exclusive.

And you might want to ask people in India for example the impact capitalism has had on raising people out of poverty.

And China and Russia - state capitalism.

I think the British people make genuine refugees as welcome as they can. Afghanistan, Hong Kong, Ukraine-all these countries’ citizens we have welcomed recently. Whether the Government can AFFORD to do more is a moot point. We have thousands of illegal migrants, NOT refugees, from safe countries who are costing us millions daily in hotels whilst we have a failing social housing system, families in substandard and temporary accommodation and a growing homeless problem. I am a fairly moderate person but this continuing failure of successive governments,Tory and Labour, to address the housing problem and the migrant crisis is shocking and needs some more definite action than empty promises and liberal dreams. I await more than words from the PM and his would-be counterpart as I’m sure many others impacted in their local areas do. I note that many of the more prominent middle class supporters of free entry for all, live far away from the areas with high numbers of our illegal guests!

amalegra

I’m not sure what legal definition you are using when you describe “illegal migrants”

You maybe falling into the government propaganda trap of using the term but without international law to support it.

Asylum seekers and refugee status is governed by recognised international law - to which the U.K. is signed up.

No, we do not have thousands of illegal migrants!! We have thousands of asylum seekers whose claims have not been processed. According to international law, they have done absolutely nothing illegal.