Starmer's speach this morning

I sometimes think that people use words like socialistand communism without fully understanding their concepts or context.

Glorianny

DaisyAnne

Glorianny

I'd be much happier if Starmer just made two pledges.
1. No more privatisation of the NHS
2. Non-profit making cooperative companies to run energy and water provision providing reasonably priced products with any profits ploughed back into development.
He won't!
I thought his new image was funny. I could hear his advisors "Leave the jacket off, roll up your sleeves. Try to look like a working man."

I do find that sort of comment odd. Why would the parties only have campaigns that attract one person? Why would they even, should others agree with you, try to attract just a handful of people?

They are bound to have a broader appeal than that or they would have no hope of winning an election and running a democratic country for the majority.

The idea that I'm alone in wanting these things is ludicrous. 66% of people want public ownership of energy companies
weownit.org.uk/public-ownership/energy#:~:text=66%25%20of%20us%20believe%20energy,%2C%20transmission%2C%20distribution%20and%20supply.
And 84% of people think the NHS should remain a publicly funded service

www.nhsforsale.info/public-opinion-on-the-nhs-and-privatisation/

The pity is that Starmer never really manages to read the public properly. Possibly because he is so busy trying to do what he imagines people want.
I like Aneurin Bevan
^We know what happens to people who stay in the middle of the road. They get run over!^

Your reference goes to "We Own It". It shows none of the original statistics from this single poll last August. Nor does it seem to have a link to them. So we only have their opinion on what the stats say. What is a group called "We Own it" trying to sell us, I wonder?

So the poll was conducted in August 2022. That was time, when we looked forward to what would happen in the winter and to our heating bills. August 2022, when most people had absorbed the knowledge that this government had provided very little energy security. August, when we heard about the windfall profits. August, when most found that the government was unwilling to control prices. And one poll offers one alternative and asks people if they would rather have that.

And then you spout nonsense about Starmer, a man who has dragged his party from the unpopular to the popular in a way that no one thought could be done. How has he done that without being able to "read the public properly"? Your comment is not just biased. It is from someone wearing a blindfold of prejudice.

I would happily agree that he doesn't dance to your extreme left-wing views. For many voters, that makes his leadership so much more attractive. I don't doubt that energy ownership will be under discussion if the Labour Party get into government. It will affect my view about who to vote for if it includes such things as mutuality and co-operative and community movements. I accept that you still believe in the state running the country in that nearly communist way they did after the war. You need to accept that other don't and that, in a democratic country, we may all vote from our own point of view. Hopefully, the ideas will come from Starmer and his teams and those in the smaller parties, not those still living in 1945.

If those in the middle of politics get destroyed, it's not because they are stupidly standing still and never thinking or changing their position as their perspective of danger changes. They are the very ones who watch the careering juggernaut of extremism deliberately destroy half the population. The destruction is always, absolutely always, carried out by those on the extremes who, it seems, are unable to see an altered perspective when time is constantly changing the view.

Labour is not a remain or leave party ? So we have brexit because Labour voters abstained

Whitewavemark2

Glorianny

Whitewavemark2

Glorianny

I fail to see how someone who has consistently denied Labour membership to Jews who happen to dislike his brand of Tory-lite can be considered as healing anything.
Add to that his demonisation of Corbyn, which has completely upset Islington North Labour voters and I become very concerned.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhYhCT86R-E
Even Blair refused to consider deselecting Corbyn because he knew he was a good constituency MP.
Starmer probably will win because the Tories are unelectable. Quite what will happen under someone who has broken so many pledges and shifted his views so many times in order to gain power I don't know

Who will you vote for glorianny? I note that the far left of the LP are distancing themselves from Corbyn’s anti-war stance. Do you agree with them?

I'll vote Labour because I have a good Labour MP.
The only time I haven't voted Labour was when Tony Blair took us into an illegal war.

I find the Ukrainian war disturbing and I feel for the people of Ukraine who are trapped in a conflict which no one is really trying to stop, because it is providing not just a great market for arms manufacturers but also a testing ground for weapons.

I have always believed in peace. I wish I could believe that everything possible is being done to bring the conflict to an end, but I can't.
The present swing to the right and the hawkish politics gaining ground I find very disturbing.

Everyone believes in peace (well more or less) but it is the way it is achieved that we differ on.

I do not believe in appeasing an aggressor, as I regard that way lies real danger for the world.

Like a lot of people I considered the war in Iraq illegal and couldn’t support it, but I continue to be impressed with what Blair and Brown achieved throughout their tenure in office, I assume you would see them as “Tory-lite”?

I would and I would put many of the present problems directly at their door.
In that
They failed to redevelop a local housing policy that built council houses.
They assisted privatisation of the NHS
They introduced privatisation into education through academy schools
And much more
Of course there were some temporary benefits and short term improvements, but the fact is that the Tories under Thatcher had succesfully changed society and Blair didn't alter that.
I would imagine the same will happen with Starmer. There will be short lived improvements which will disappear once the Tories are back in 5 or 10 years.

Glorianny

Anniebach

The far left supported Brexit !

Party chair Ian Lavery MP "Labour is NOT a Remain Party, it’s NOT a Leave Party. It’s a SOCIALIST Party.”

That’s convenient for the Left, isn’t it? serioisly, , now you know where the party is going Glorianny, will you stay or will you go?

Anniebach

The far left supported Brexit !

Party chair Ian Lavery MP "Labour is NOT a Remain Party, it’s NOT a Leave Party. It’s a SOCIALIST Party.”

Glorianny

Whitewavemark2

Glorianny

I fail to see how someone who has consistently denied Labour membership to Jews who happen to dislike his brand of Tory-lite can be considered as healing anything.
Add to that his demonisation of Corbyn, which has completely upset Islington North Labour voters and I become very concerned.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhYhCT86R-E
Even Blair refused to consider deselecting Corbyn because he knew he was a good constituency MP.
Starmer probably will win because the Tories are unelectable. Quite what will happen under someone who has broken so many pledges and shifted his views so many times in order to gain power I don't know

Who will you vote for glorianny? I note that the far left of the LP are distancing themselves from Corbyn’s anti-war stance. Do you agree with them?

I'll vote Labour because I have a good Labour MP.
The only time I haven't voted Labour was when Tony Blair took us into an illegal war.

I find the Ukrainian war disturbing and I feel for the people of Ukraine who are trapped in a conflict which no one is really trying to stop, because it is providing not just a great market for arms manufacturers but also a testing ground for weapons.

I have always believed in peace. I wish I could believe that everything possible is being done to bring the conflict to an end, but I can't.
The present swing to the right and the hawkish politics gaining ground I find very disturbing.

Everyone believes in peace (well more or less) but it is the way it is achieved that we differ on.

I do not believe in appeasing an aggressor, as I regard that way lies real danger for the world.

Like a lot of people I considered the war in Iraq illegal and couldn’t support it, but I continue to be impressed with what Blair and Brown achieved throughout their tenure in office, I assume you would see them as “Tory-lite”?

Anniebach

The far left supported Brexit !

Yes - Tony Benn was very anti- EU.

Whitewavemark2

Glorianny

I fail to see how someone who has consistently denied Labour membership to Jews who happen to dislike his brand of Tory-lite can be considered as healing anything.
Add to that his demonisation of Corbyn, which has completely upset Islington North Labour voters and I become very concerned.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhYhCT86R-E
Even Blair refused to consider deselecting Corbyn because he knew he was a good constituency MP.
Starmer probably will win because the Tories are unelectable. Quite what will happen under someone who has broken so many pledges and shifted his views so many times in order to gain power I don't know

Who will you vote for glorianny? I note that the far left of the LP are distancing themselves from Corbyn’s anti-war stance. Do you agree with them?

I'll vote Labour because I have a good Labour MP.
The only time I haven't voted Labour was when Tony Blair took us into an illegal war.

I find the Ukrainian war disturbing and I feel for the people of Ukraine who are trapped in a conflict which no one is really trying to stop, because it is providing not just a great market for arms manufacturers but also a testing ground for weapons.

I have always believed in peace. I wish I could believe that everything possible is being done to bring the conflict to an end, but I can't.
The present swing to the right and the hawkish politics gaining ground I find very disturbing.

The far left supported Brexit !

DaisyAnne

Glorianny

I'd be much happier if Starmer just made two pledges.
1. No more privatisation of the NHS
2. Non-profit making cooperative companies to run energy and water provision providing reasonably priced products with any profits ploughed back into development.
He won't!
I thought his new image was funny. I could hear his advisors "Leave the jacket off, roll up your sleeves. Try to look like a working man."

I do find that sort of comment odd. Why would the parties only have campaigns that attract one person? Why would they even, should others agree with you, try to attract just a handful of people?

They are bound to have a broader appeal than that or they would have no hope of winning an election and running a democratic country for the majority.

The idea that I'm alone in wanting these things is ludicrous. 66% of people want public ownership of energy companies
weownit.org.uk/public-ownership/energy#:~:text=66%25%20of%20us%20believe%20energy,%2C%20transmission%2C%20distribution%20and%20supply.
And 84% of people think the NHS should remain a publicly funded service

www.nhsforsale.info/public-opinion-on-the-nhs-and-privatisation/

The pity is that Starmer never really manages to read the public properly. Possibly because he is so busy trying to do what he imagines people want.
I like Aneurin Bevan
We know what happens to people who stay in the middle of the road. They get run over!

Glorianny

I fail to see how someone who has consistently denied Labour membership to Jews who happen to dislike his brand of Tory-lite can be considered as healing anything.
Add to that his demonisation of Corbyn, which has completely upset Islington North Labour voters and I become very concerned.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhYhCT86R-E
Even Blair refused to consider deselecting Corbyn because he knew he was a good constituency MP.
Starmer probably will win because the Tories are unelectable. Quite what will happen under someone who has broken so many pledges and shifted his views so many times in order to gain power I don't know

Who will you vote for glorianny? I note that the far left of the LP are distancing themselves from Corbyn’s anti-war stance. Do you agree with them?

Grany you’re right of course, but no good saying it on here. The party’s been taken over and the people who plotted against a Labour victory in 2019 have been rewarded.

I fail to see how someone who has consistently denied Labour membership to Jews who happen to dislike his brand of Tory-lite can be considered as healing anything.
Add to that his demonisation of Corbyn, which has completely upset Islington North Labour voters and I become very concerned.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhYhCT86R-E
Even Blair refused to consider deselecting Corbyn because he knew he was a good constituency MP.
Starmer probably will win because the Tories are unelectable. Quite what will happen under someone who has broken so many pledges and shifted his views so many times in order to gain power I don't know

It was Luciana Berger who cause the Conservatives to win the last general election not Corbyn 😂

It must be so galling for you to see the Labour Party regaining members, including high profile ones, attracting financial support, out of debt and making headlines because they are likely to return to government Grany, so it’s now high time to either support the way forward, or leave the party.

nanna8

I thought you were talking about the grocery store, whitewave! Just pondering what they would be supporting a political party for. Then I read it properly. They get very snaky about that sort of donation here and they imply it smacks of corruption. Thinking about it, there is an unsavoury element when people ‘buy’ support just as there is when newspapers only show one particular side of an issue. These days it seems to be just accepted.

That seems an immature reaction. Or is it a very mature one that says we should fund all political parties from tax?

The only way you stop needing money from people and organisations is to ban all payments to all parties and fund from tax. Is this more or less democratic? Mmm. I don't know enough about this. Which democratic countries are state-funded, for instance?

I don't think it's a case of "These days it [buying support] seems to be just accepted". We do have less vote buying than we once did. My question would be: "What is the next step forward to make the party system more democratic". The exception is PR, which I have no doubt (my bias), would make our government more democratic.

Bernie Sanders says Sir Keir Starmer’s Labour are heading in the wrong direction with their plans for the NHS to link up with the Private Health Profiteers.

Like
@Keir_Starmer
leadership prospectus, the narrative in his tweet is entirely bogus.

Ms Berger was going to be deselected because she repeatedly undermined Labour's leadership to sabotage the election of a Labour government. She subsequently joined the Liberal Democrats.

She literally campaigned to stop you and hundreds of Labour candidates to get elected. Thanks to her efforts we had Boris Johnson as PM. Should this be forgiven? Or did you secretly condone what she was doing?

With a combination of false promises, lies and subterfuges, Keir Smarmer has completed the theft of the Labour Party and transitioned it into a new "Alt-right" Tory option" and Lord Sainsbury's two million quid is the final building block in this act of political 'grand larceny'

Just reading about Sainsbury’s reasoning behind his donation.

He strongly supports Starmers intention to unite the U.K. behind strong growth and social justice.

He is trying to balance the imbalance between the donations to the two major parties.

Labour is now debt and deficit free. Hugely welcome.

Donations to the Tory party has fallen by 40%, and in other news they are welcoming fast track tenders from close friends for lucrative contracts to produce and supply tomatoes to anyone but Sainsbury, previous inexperience definitely an advantage.

nanna8

I thought you were talking about the grocery store, whitewave! Just pondering what they would be supporting a political party for. Then I read it properly. They get very snaky about that sort of donation here and they imply it smacks of corruption. Thinking about it, there is an unsavoury element when people ‘buy’ support just as there is when newspapers only show one particular side of an issue. These days it seems to be just accepted.

He is related to the store.

I do agree that political parties should all be funded equally.

I thought you were talking about the grocery store, whitewave! Just pondering what they would be supporting a political party for. Then I read it properly. They get very snaky about that sort of donation here and they imply it smacks of corruption. Thinking about it, there is an unsavoury element when people ‘buy’ support just as there is when newspapers only show one particular side of an issue. These days it seems to be just accepted.

Read this morning that businesses are flocking to support the Labour Party, and donations are coming in.

Sainsbury has recently donated £2million to Labour, since rejoining the LP. He became a member during the Blair years and left during the Corbyn period.

Whitewavemark2

Anyone remember Luciana Berger who left Labour as a result of the anti-semitism she experienced 4 years ago?

Well Starmer wrote and invited her back and she has accepted! And will be joining Labour once again.

Good to see a party healing itself.

Good.

Glorianny

I'd be much happier if Starmer just made two pledges.
1. No more privatisation of the NHS
2. Non-profit making cooperative companies to run energy and water provision providing reasonably priced products with any profits ploughed back into development.
He won't!
I thought his new image was funny. I could hear his advisors "Leave the jacket off, roll up your sleeves. Try to look like a working man."

Ah. I should have read further. Personal attack = no reasoned argument to offer. Why is it "funny". Most male MPs don't look like models dressed by Saville Row and staged by GQ.

We are getting quite a few of these "personal attack" with nothing else to say, on this thread, I notice.

Glorianny

I'd be much happier if Starmer just made two pledges.
1. No more privatisation of the NHS
2. Non-profit making cooperative companies to run energy and water provision providing reasonably priced products with any profits ploughed back into development.
He won't!
I thought his new image was funny. I could hear his advisors "Leave the jacket off, roll up your sleeves. Try to look like a working man."

I do find that sort of comment odd. Why would the parties only have campaigns that attract one person? Why would they even, should others agree with you, try to attract just a handful of people?

They are bound to have a broader appeal than that or they would have no hope of winning an election and running a democratic country for the majority.