New immigration bill - how on earth will it work?

Why the UK?

1. They can speak English

2. Trafficking gangs can make money, migrants can travel freely in the EU so no money can be made by gangs.

By telling migrants that life is better in UK the gangs can charge to cross the channel, often migrants are indentured and pay back when working in UK but never get well paid work

That is probably why it has got worse since Brexit.

Casdon

Glorianny

There's around 11,000 miles of coastline in this country. The idea that you can police all of it is ridiculous. Of course refugees will be put more at risk as boats try to make the journey in the dark, avoiding patrols and aiming for deserted beaches. Then they will disappear into the black economy and the power of the gang masters.
Of course the government won't have to count them.

That’s quite an irrelevant point, because the boats aren’t landing on Hebridean islands, are they? The south coast of England is the only entry point from the channel and that is about 340 miles.

That's not quite true. Boats have been landing for years on the Suffolk and Norfolk coasts - allegedly!

GrannyGravy13

Whitewavemark2

GrannyGravy13

It was said on breakfast news that they will be held in two RAF Bases.

This scheme could only work if there were ways to apply for asylum in the U.K. before attempting to get here.

Concentration camps are not a good look.

concentration camps are not a good look

Emotive language is not helpful.

So our armed forces and their families were/are housed in concentration camps?

I thought we were more civilised than that.

The problem lies with the inadequacy of the system for processing asylum claims.
If more money and effort was put into that then the sooner decisions could be made, people allowed to stay, settle and work and those found not to be genuine refugees sent home again.

Glorianny

There's around 11,000 miles of coastline in this country. The idea that you can police all of it is ridiculous. Of course refugees will be put more at risk as boats try to make the journey in the dark, avoiding patrols and aiming for deserted beaches. Then they will disappear into the black economy and the power of the gang masters.
Of course the government won't have to count them.

That’s quite an irrelevant point, because the boats aren’t landing on Hebridean islands, are they? The south coast of England is the only entry point from the channel and that is about 340 miles.

Sunak has tweeted about this today. Bear in mind this Bill will make all asylum seekers illegal immigrants. This is what he says:

If you come to the UK illegally:

➡️ You can’t claim asylum

➡️ You can’t benefit from our modern slavery protections

➡️ You can’t make spurious human rights claims

➡️ You can’t stay

The bold is mine. Are those of you in favour of this Bill actually happy for the UK to allow slavery?

Very valid point, seems to be ignored by the government: they have actually more control over regular landings in known places.

And the other question raised, oh well they should never have left other parts of Europe, especially France, thats just chucking an international issue back to another European country, it solves nothing.

There's around 11,000 miles of coastline in this country. The idea that you can police all of it is ridiculous. Of course refugees will be put more at risk as boats try to make the journey in the dark, avoiding patrols and aiming for deserted beaches. Then they will disappear into the black economy and the power of the gang masters.
Of course the government won't have to count them.

So the UK is a bit further west than France. France is further west than many other countries. Where does it end? It would mean that the countries bordering on the Mediterranean would end up with everybody. Why should they be lumbered with the problem, just because others want to turn a blind eye to what's happening in the world?

MaizieD

^The question is^

Why?

The answer surely is, Brexity government, Priti Patel and now Suella Braverman. And pandering to the racists who voted to leave the EU.

This is where I first spoke of racists. In answer to a (rhetorical) question.

Why have the tories allowed this situation to happen? I think my answer is absolutely valid.

Incidentally. Boat crossings have only become a huge problem since Johnson's Brexit. Before that we could use the EU's Dublin Agreement.

^Very emotional but ‘unless the water is safer than the land’
Ahem! France?^

Oh, FGS. I've had this 'debate' with someone on twitter today.

They want to come to the UK.

They are human beings who have lost everything. It's not much to allow them a bit of agency over where they would like to end up. It really isn't a case of 'beggars can't be choosers'.

Some of them come because they can speak English, some come because they have relatives here. Some maybe, might (erroneously) think that the UK is a nice place. Whatever the reason, I don't think that choice should be denied to them.

And, if some people aren't being racist then they're being fascist, demonising and 'othering' a section of humanity.

Glorianny

This is from Global Citizen
I can't say it better

No one puts their children in a boat unless the water is safer than the land"
A poem about seeking asylum.
By Michael Wilson
September 7, 2015
Poetry and art aren't just indulgences, or for decoration. They're forms of expression which can do things that essays or political speeches can't. Poetry in particular can convey additional aspects of the human experience, and help us to see life from a different angle.

Warsan Shire, a Somali-British writer and poet in her 20s, uses her work to explore stories of escape and journeys. The poem below, entitled "Home", is written from the perspective of someone escaping violence, and losing their home. Not only is Shire a very talented writer, this poem is also a powerful answer to common claims that asylum seekers are moving for economic reasons, or because they just feel like it. The majority of the Syrian people who have attempted to enter Europe in recent months were legitimately fearing for their lives, and felt like they had no other choice.

If you don't enjoy graphic poetic images, this poem may not be for you. But if you're ready for a vivid picture, read on.

no one leaves home unless
home is the mouth of a shark
you only run for the border
when you see the whole city running as well

your neighbours running faster than you
breath bloody in their throats
the boy you went to school with
who kissed you dizzy behind the old tin factory
is holding a gun bigger than his body
you only leave home
when home won't let you stay.

no one leaves home unless home chases you
fire under feet
hot blood in your belly
it's not something you ever thought of doing
until the blade burnt threats into
your neck
and even then you carried the anthem under
your breath
only tearing up your passport in an airport toilets
sobbing as each mouthful of paper
made it clear that you wouldn't be going back.

you have to understand,
that no one puts their children in a boat
unless the water is safer than the land
no one burns their palms
under trains
beneath carriages
no one spends days and nights in the stomach of a truck
feeding on newspaper unless the miles travelled
means something more than journey.
no one crawls under fences
no one wants to be beaten
pitied

no one chooses refugee camps
or strip searches where your
body is left aching
or prison,
because prison is safer
than a city of fire
and one prison guard
in the night
is better than a truckload
of men who look like your father
no one could take it
no one could stomach it
no one skin would be tough enough

the
go home blacks
refugees
dirty immigrants
asylum seekers
sucking our country dry
niggers with their hands out
they smell strange
savage
messed up their country and now they want
to mess ours up
how do the words
the dirty looks
roll off your backs
maybe because the blow is softer
than a limb torn off

or the words are more tender
than fourteen men between
your legs
or the insults are easier
to swallow
than rubble
than bone
than your child body
in pieces.
i want to go home,
but home is the mouth of a shark
home is the barrel of the gun
and no one would leave home
unless home chased you to the shore
unless home told you
to quicken your legs
leave your clothes behind
crawl through the desert
wade through the oceans
drown
save
be hunger
beg
forget pride
your survival is more important

no one leaves home until home is a sweaty voice in your ear
saying-
leave,
run away from me now
i dont know what i've become
but i know that anywhere
is safer than here.

Very emotional but ‘unless the water is safer than the land’
Ahem! France?
There is no sensible logic to risking your life or your child by getting into a dinghy on a French beach to cross the Channel.

If only we had a suitable “safe” island that would be migrants/asylum seekers could be sent, that would solve a lot of Sunak’s problems

Seriously if migrants do get to the UK it’s going to be very tough to remove them, stoping them in France would be much better, processing genuine asylum seekers before they cross the channel.

GrannyGravy13

MaizieD

It is possible to want secure borders without being a racist.

Nobody has said that it isn't, GG13. But then, I don't see you rushing to agree with the proposed legislation...

I definitely do not agree with the proposed Bill.

I have always advocated for folks to be able to claim asylum from abroad (British Embassy or suchlike) cuts out people trafficking gangs.

It just gets rather tedious when racism is constantly brought into any discussion on immigration.

The problem is that racists weaponise it and mix it up with all sorts of other accusations against people with dark skin, especially if they're Muslim.

ExperiencedNotOld

MaizieD

Sago

MaizieD

“ The answer surely is, Brexity government, Priti Patel and now Suella Braverman. And pandering to the racists who voted to leave the EU.”

I am not claiming imaginary victimisation.
I’m asking that you don’t use such sweeping statements.

It just isn't a sweeping statement. It is proven beyond doubt that racists voted Leave. It's something that Leave voters have to reconcile themselves with..

Like we older Remain voters have to reconcile ourselves to statements about old people voting leave. Which, is, sadly,
true. As a grown up person I don't make a fuss about it as I know it doesn't include me.

Whatever the glib argument, it seems that you firmly believe that to vote Leave was the wrongest of wrongs and that entitles you and your honchos to cast about the accusation of ‘racist’, or fools, or under-educated or whatever.
So does that entitle me and anyone else offended by your slurs the right to answer back with ‘arrogant prig’? Now you wouldn’t like that, would you?

One has to respect somebody to take their insults seriously.

In any case, there have been numerous studies which show that people who voted Leave were, on average, older, had lower educational qualifications and socially conservative views. Stating that isn't an insult. Remember that all dogs are animals, but not all animals are dogs.

Strangely enough, I disagree! I think the new Bill announced by Sunak today is going to be a game changer. He also said at his press conference an hour ago that France are in the process of changing their laws too, to better suit their immigration problems. As he outlined, Germany too. He said it’s a European problem.

Sunak seems on the ball here. Intelligent and digs down into the finer details (unlike Boris). I think he is determined to shape our laws to fit. Someone said to him “a league of lawyers will be lining up right now to pick over this Bill and take you on - are you up for the fight Prime Minister?” and at this, Sunak said “yes, most definitely”.

We shall see eh?
The proof of the pudding and all that.

Sunak going to France on Friday. I suspect nothing will happen. Perhaps he will warn Macron that he is building a wall which France must pay for.

I was reading that this is about the 40th effort by the Tories to get control of the immigrant issue - all failed.

I wouldn’t hold your breath

It's a cynical ploy to get more Tory votes at the local elections. When it fails they will blame the usual suspects - Lefty lawyers, the Labour Party, refugee help organisations and the Court of Human Rights.

I think adequate and thorough checks can be made Rwanda. Or on an ex-military base. Hotels etc are not the right places.

Once word gets around (mobile phones) that the UK is going to deal with this robustly and in a different manner (thanks to the new law passed today) then it will be a huge deterrent. The flow of little boats will dry up and pretty much cease because it won’t be worth paying the people traffickersto then maybe get put on a plane to wheee you don’t want to be.

In tandem, the backlog can be addressed. Chipping away at that when numbers are not swelling the total every day will make a huge difference.

MaizieD

Sago

MaizieD

“ The answer surely is, Brexity government, Priti Patel and now Suella Braverman. And pandering to the racists who voted to leave the EU.”

I am not claiming imaginary victimisation.
I’m asking that you don’t use such sweeping statements.

It just isn't a sweeping statement. It is proven beyond doubt that racists voted Leave. It's something that Leave voters have to reconcile themselves with..

Like we older Remain voters have to reconcile ourselves to statements about old people voting leave. Which, is, sadly,
true. As a grown up person I don't make a fuss about it as I know it doesn't include me.

Whatever the glib argument, it seems that you firmly believe that to vote Leave was the wrongest of wrongs and that entitles you and your honchos to cast about the accusation of ‘racist’, or fools, or under-educated or whatever.
So does that entitle me and anyone else offended by your slurs the right to answer back with ‘arrogant prig’? Now you wouldn’t like that, would you?

Clearing the backlog not learning.

What really angers me about Braverman - just been an read all the I player stuff - is how anyone who disagrees with her has been labelled leftie blobs and traitors. Do we really approve, whatever our political inclinations, of this inflammatory and divisive language from out own home secretary?

GrannyGravy13

It is possible to want secure borders without being a racist.

I have absolutely no problem with the colour of skin of those seeking asylum in the U.K.

I do expect the authorities to do as thorough a background check as possible to ensure to the best of their ability that they are who they claim to be and their reasons are valid along with their intentions not to be criminal.

If the above criteria are not met then immediate repatriation.

Granny - how can we do that without adequate staffing and learning the backlog?
Remember 40% of people arriving on boats are given asylum so those checks have to be adequate.

Whitewavemark2

ExperiencedNotOld

Whitewavemark2

The absolute irony is that none of the issue with the small boats would have happened if Brexit had not happened, and yet it was sold to the believers as the panacea for the immigrant issue.

Explain you logic here please.

I see the mention of Brexit as another desperate attempt to mention your very favourite subject, and that alone.
Criminal gangs saw that giving people the option of a boat (rather than trying to hide in a lorry) was lucrative. As I said earlier, they’re told many lies about life in the UK. And hang safety! There is nothing more to it that that.

The day we brexited, the Dublin framework, no longer existed for asylum seekers including minors hoping to join their families in the U.K., because the Tory government failed to agree to cooperate with the EU.

The government then set about closing all safe routes thus ensuring that the only way left open was to try to get to the U.K. with the assistance if people smugglers and small boats.

So I am afraid that Brexit is directly responsible for the small boats.

Sorry. I think exploitation is more to blame. Casting individuals into a dangerous sea whilst making them pay through future exploitation and involvement in criminal enterprise. And you only get a life jacket by ‘paying’ even more.

yes it is exactly that wW2

👀

I was supposed to put the 'why am i in the cold' in quote marks btw. I haven't had to