New immigration bill - how on earth will it work?

and as someone who works in a factory, the housing of immigrants/asylum seekers in hotels does seem to cause a lot of upset. Why am I having to sit in the cold when these people are being fed in warm hotels is brought up by quite a few narrow minded lets focus on the others men people. But no one in full time employment should be sitting in the cold and using food banks either, no matter what their profession.

I am a snow flake but I cannot see how the RAF bases are any worse than Yarl's wood or Manston airport (the latter was promoting the spread of disease) have the Serco places stopped being used? The RAF near me has plenty of green spaces outdoors unlike the disused hotel up the road from me, being used as temporary accommodation for families and the poor kiddies have to play on the car park next to a horrible dual carriageway (it also has security and fencing btw)

I HATE the rhetoric of 'small boats' that dehumanises people to that of a blow up vessel I feel the government and the media are encouraging hatred, it is rather ironic that 3 people that are Asian are spearheading it all though.

No point in supporting this bill, as the general opinion is that it won’t get through before the election.

So it will never go into law.

MaizieD

^It is possible to want secure borders without being a racist^.

Nobody has said that it isn't, GG13. But then, I don't see you rushing to agree with the proposed legislation...

I definitely do not agree with the proposed Bill.

I have always advocated for folks to be able to claim asylum from abroad (British Embassy or suchlike) cuts out people trafficking gangs.

It just gets rather tedious when racism is constantly brought into any discussion on immigration.

It is possible to want secure borders without being a racist.

Nobody has said that it isn't, GG13. But then, I don't see you rushing to agree with the proposed legislation...

We all need to read this and reflect Glorianny - and share it widely.

Thank you Glorianny.

It is possible to want secure borders without being a racist.

I have absolutely no problem with the colour of skin of those seeking asylum in the U.K.

I do expect the authorities to do as thorough a background check as possible to ensure to the best of their ability that they are who they claim to be and their reasons are valid along with their intentions not to be criminal.

If the above criteria are not met then immediate repatriation.

MaizieD

Sago

MaizieD

“ The answer surely is, Brexity government, Priti Patel and now Suella Braverman. And pandering to the racists who voted to leave the EU.”

I am not claiming imaginary victimisation.
I’m asking that you don’t use such sweeping statements.

It just isn't a sweeping statement. It is proven beyond doubt that racists voted Leave. It's something that Leave voters have to reconcile themselves with..

Like we older Remain voters have to reconcile ourselves to statements about old people voting leave. Which, is, sadly,
true. As a grown up person I don't make a fuss about it as I know it doesn't include me.

Not all racists! My mother voted Remain. She was a racist and didn't approve of any immigrants, but reckoned the country needed them. Her thinking was that at least EU immigrants were white and we wouldn't have to let people with brown or black skin into the country.

I was totally gobsmacked when she told me.

Thank you Glorianny. Those in power should read this poem.

This is from Global Citizen
I can't say it better

No one puts their children in a boat unless the water is safer than the land"
A poem about seeking asylum.
By Michael Wilson
September 7, 2015
Poetry and art aren't just indulgences, or for decoration. They're forms of expression which can do things that essays or political speeches can't. Poetry in particular can convey additional aspects of the human experience, and help us to see life from a different angle.

Warsan Shire, a Somali-British writer and poet in her 20s, uses her work to explore stories of escape and journeys. The poem below, entitled "Home", is written from the perspective of someone escaping violence, and losing their home. Not only is Shire a very talented writer, this poem is also a powerful answer to common claims that asylum seekers are moving for economic reasons, or because they just feel like it. The majority of the Syrian people who have attempted to enter Europe in recent months were legitimately fearing for their lives, and felt like they had no other choice.

If you don't enjoy graphic poetic images, this poem may not be for you. But if you're ready for a vivid picture, read on.

no one leaves home unless
home is the mouth of a shark
you only run for the border
when you see the whole city running as well

your neighbours running faster than you
breath bloody in their throats
the boy you went to school with
who kissed you dizzy behind the old tin factory
is holding a gun bigger than his body
you only leave home
when home won't let you stay.

no one leaves home unless home chases you
fire under feet
hot blood in your belly
it's not something you ever thought of doing
until the blade burnt threats into
your neck
and even then you carried the anthem under
your breath
only tearing up your passport in an airport toilets
sobbing as each mouthful of paper
made it clear that you wouldn't be going back.

you have to understand,
that no one puts their children in a boat
unless the water is safer than the land
no one burns their palms
under trains
beneath carriages
no one spends days and nights in the stomach of a truck
feeding on newspaper unless the miles travelled
means something more than journey.
no one crawls under fences
no one wants to be beaten
pitied

no one chooses refugee camps
or strip searches where your
body is left aching
or prison,
because prison is safer
than a city of fire
and one prison guard
in the night
is better than a truckload
of men who look like your father
no one could take it
no one could stomach it
no one skin would be tough enough

the
go home blacks
refugees
dirty immigrants
asylum seekers
sucking our country dry
niggers with their hands out
they smell strange
savage
messed up their country and now they want
to mess ours up
how do the words
the dirty looks
roll off your backs
maybe because the blow is softer
than a limb torn off

or the words are more tender
than fourteen men between
your legs
or the insults are easier
to swallow
than rubble
than bone
than your child body
in pieces.
i want to go home,
but home is the mouth of a shark
home is the barrel of the gun
and no one would leave home
unless home chased you to the shore
unless home told you
to quicken your legs
leave your clothes behind
crawl through the desert
wade through the oceans
drown
save
be hunger
beg
forget pride
your survival is more important

no one leaves home until home is a sweaty voice in your ear
saying-
leave,
run away from me now
i dont know what i've become
but i know that anywhere
is safer than here.

Sago

MaizieD

“ The answer surely is, Brexity government, Priti Patel and now Suella Braverman. And pandering to the racists who voted to leave the EU.”

I am not claiming imaginary victimisation.
I’m asking that you don’t use such sweeping statements.

It just isn't a sweeping statement. It is proven beyond doubt that racists voted Leave. It's something that Leave voters have to reconcile themselves with..

Like we older Remain voters have to reconcile ourselves to statements about old people voting leave. Which, is, sadly,
true. As a grown up person I don't make a fuss about it as I know it doesn't include me.

ExperiencedNotOld

Whitewavemark2

The absolute irony is that none of the issue with the small boats would have happened if Brexit had not happened, and yet it was sold to the believers as the panacea for the immigrant issue.

Explain you logic here please.

I see the mention of Brexit as another desperate attempt to mention your very favourite subject, and that alone.
Criminal gangs saw that giving people the option of a boat (rather than trying to hide in a lorry) was lucrative. As I said earlier, they’re told many lies about life in the UK. And hang safety! There is nothing more to it that that.

The day we brexited, the Dublin framework, no longer existed for asylum seekers including minors hoping to join their families in the U.K., because the Tory government failed to agree to cooperate with the EU.

The government then set about closing all safe routes thus ensuring that the only way left open was to try to get to the U.K. with the assistance if people smugglers and small boats.

So I am afraid that Brexit is directly responsible for the small boats.

To be fair, non-detained asylum seekers have a cost too, until they can work. Still won’t he £7m a day.

Aaah. Obviously the wrong sort of votes, eh WM2?

Wrong sort of humans, if, after listening to Braverman’s speech this morning, read the Bill (which I’ve now done), done some basic maths on the likely financial and human consequences if it was enacted, they support this.

To respond to some other posts. There’s no evidence that deterrents work; in fact, deterrents seem to just increase risky journeys (including the small boats) asylumwelfarework.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/asylum-seeker-pull-factors-working-paper.pdf

The cost of maintaining an asylum seeker is £107 a day - the UK currently has 2513 asylum seekers detention capacity. That’s 2513 x 107 = £268,891 per day, which is a little way short of £7m.

If the new Bill was enacted, it would be impossible to return/deport/resettle every asylum seeker as they arrived. They’d all have to be detained, as the new Bill criminalises them.

Last year the number of asylum seekers was 45000 (higher than normal because of the Ukrainian refugees). Assuming that number again though, for the sake of argument, we’d need 17x the current detention capacity, at a cost (ignoring inflation) of £ 1757,475,000 per year - that’s one billion seven hundred fifty-seven million four hundred seventy-five thousand pounds. Per year. (Stats credit to Lucy Mayblin of Sheffield University)

So all those who think this Bill is the best thing since sliced bread: what are you willing to see sacrificed to pay for it?

MaizieD

“ The answer surely is, Brexity government, Priti Patel and now Suella Braverman. And pandering to the racists who voted to leave the EU.”

I am not claiming imaginary victimisation.
I’m asking that you don’t use such sweeping statements.

Sure - jobs in care or the NHS with no spoken English. Jobs in agriculture when temperature sensitive due to being raised in warmer climes. Dream on….

Whitewavemark2

The absolute irony is that none of the issue with the small boats would have happened if Brexit had not happened, and yet it was sold to the believers as the panacea for the immigrant issue.

Explain you logic here please.

I see the mention of Brexit as another desperate attempt to mention your very favourite subject, and that alone.
Criminal gangs saw that giving people the option of a boat (rather than trying to hide in a lorry) was lucrative. As I said earlier, they’re told many lies about life in the UK. And hang safety! There is nothing more to it that that.

So following in from Bravermans admission that the new bill does not comply with U.K. law because of the UKs HR obligations……………

The U.K. can’t leave the ECHR because:
It guarantees the Good Friday Agreement and because the U.K. will never get a US trade deal if it does leave the ECHR.

This bill is never going to work.

What is going to happen is there will be a huge amount of time and money spent on a useless bill in the hope that they can spin it out until the next election and convince the voter that it is a goer.

Adam Wagner - barrister

So according to this the government will be declaring the new bill will not be compatible with the UK’s human rights obligations - meaning the govt had failed to come up with a policy which works under our own existing law. Unworkable, and the govt clearly knows it

Cannot see myself how this can be managed. Something needs to be done.

Whitewavemark2

The huts will be containing people against their will, the guards will not be for their protection but to keep them imprisoned.

The solution is pathetically obvious.

1. Get the safe routes established - work with France by setting up application centres on the French/English channel border.

2. The Home office needs a complete reorganisation as it has been dysfunctional and incompetent for years.

3. Throw everything at clearing the backlog.

4. Establish a recognised working practice and for every person accepted as a refugee by helping them to find work and get established in the U.K. as useful members of our society.

Exactly.

Neither establishing legal safe routes nor setting up application centres before bringing in these laws will lead to many genuine asylum applicants still coming in small boats, and then losing any right to asylum in the future. This will be a death sentence for many.

Setting the routes and application centres up BEFORE bringing the law in will destroy the people smuggling business (I cannot believe that anyone in government doesn't know this).
It will also mean that fewer asylum seekers will be unfairly treated as long as the backlog is cleared quickly and the Home Office becomes a great deal more efficient.

And what a great idea, Whitewavemark's number 4 suggestion is!

Currently Britain is metaphorically cutting off its nose to spite its face; we are short of workers in many areas, especially Care, the NHS and agriculture. Solve it by spending money , not on incredibly expensive schemes, like Rwanda, hotels and the ever increasing 'wall' building around the UK, but sorting out the Home Office, speeding up the asylum system, and helping those people arriving find jobs.

Sago

MaizieD

There were plenty of them, Sago. I'm not saying that they were all racist, but racists voted Leave...

I voted leave.
I am no racist.

Where have I said that you were a racist? You've even quoted the post in which I clarified my statement.
You're claiming imaginary victimisation.

The absolute irony is that none of the issue with the small boats would have happened if Brexit had not happened, and yet it was sold to the believers as the panacea for the immigrant issue.

To those complaining about the costs of refugees they want to work. This government will not lift the restrictions on working for asylum seekers. In spite of a petition signed by over 180,000people. In spite of refugees asking to work, In spite of businesses (particularly hospitality) saying they need the workers . Read www.refugee-action.org.uk/lift-the-ban/