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New immigration bill - how on earth will it work?

(539 Posts)
Whitewavemark2 Tue 07-Mar-23 07:49:34

So the latest wheeze from Sunak is to export every single asylum seeker who arrives on our shores, who have not gone through the proper channels or “safe route”

So,

Can anyone explain what safe routes are available.

Can anyone explain the countries willing to accept these exports?

Rwanda has agreed some sort of mutual export agreement - so they will take a few hundred in exchange for us taking theirs. So I’m unclear how that will reduce the pressure - if it ever gets off the ground.

Can anyone explain where all these people are going to be held whilst waiting export, as the law is to apply retrospectively.

Can anyone explain how the Tory government is NOT breaking international law?

LizzieDrip Tue 07-Mar-23 13:04:32

This whole ‘plan’ is inhumane. The government intends to take away these people’s human rights. I’m sick of hearing how it’s so wrong to be an economic migrant. Braverman, Sunak & Patel are the offspring of economic migrants! People coming into the UK want to work and contribute to society but they can’t - meanwhile the UK has to issue 6 month work visas to allow people to come and pick fruit. We have a shortage of workers - so let people contribute and work! This government is pandering to the right wing xenophobes. Never have I been so ashamed to be British. God help us if we ever need refuge!

Katie59 Tue 07-Mar-23 13:10:02

“I saw that report Whitewavemark2 my immediate thought was if the authorities know they are living/operating in/from the U.K. why the hell are they not behind bars?”

Finding them and proving it in court is the problem, in any case it’s a mafia type operation when you remove one, another will take over, same with drug gangs.

GrannyGravy13 Tue 07-Mar-23 13:17:40

Katie59

“I saw that report Whitewavemark2 my immediate thought was if the authorities know they are living/operating in/from the U.K. why the hell are they not behind bars?”

Finding them and proving it in court is the problem, in any case it’s a mafia type operation when you remove one, another will take over, same with drug gangs.

Make the sentences long enough / harsh enough, track their bank accounts and confiscate the profits

Just because these gangs are mafia like is absolutely not an excuse to do nothing.

ExperiencedNotOld Tue 07-Mar-23 13:23:05

Siope

ENO they could stop (or vastly reduce) the people smuggling/small boats tomorrow by setting up safe routes at the places where refugees are. They have made a purely political choice not to do so.

But we need to discourage the flood, all a safe route will do is eventually increase it.
What follows is not a racist statement (albeit some may of course choose to interpret it as such) - we cannot afford so many people without any means of supporting themselves!

MaizieD Tue 07-Mar-23 13:26:10

Well, according to Braverman in the Sun today, those of us who don't back this proposed law are Traitors.

Who agrees with her, I wonder?

ExperiencedNotOld Tue 07-Mar-23 13:29:05

My father was an economic migrant. He came through a legal route to a job he was pre-engaged for.
Two differences there.
Just as Australia, we should screen for those that could make a contribution to our economy. That’s not racist that’s common sense.

Whitewavemark2 Tue 07-Mar-23 13:29:30

GrannyGravy13

Katie59

“I saw that report Whitewavemark2 my immediate thought was if the authorities know they are living/operating in/from the U.K. why the hell are they not behind bars?”

Finding them and proving it in court is the problem, in any case it’s a mafia type operation when you remove one, another will take over, same with drug gangs.

Make the sentences long enough / harsh enough, track their bank accounts and confiscate the profits

Just because these gangs are mafia like is absolutely not an excuse to do nothing.

Yes that sounds good but it won’t work it is just like the drug barons - sentence one and another takes his place.

The only way is to take away their customers.

So - make it easy for those seeking asylum to apply

Give them safe passage

Set up application centres at French ports - set up cooperation and arrangements with countries to whom those failing the test are returned.

Deal with those whose refugee status is confirmed as quickly and efficiently as possible.

The people smugglers would see their income drop so drastically that they will be forced to seek different illegal work😄

GrannyGravy13 Tue 07-Mar-23 13:30:42

MaizieD

Well, according to Braverman in the Sun today, those of us who don't back this proposed law are Traitors.

Who agrees with her, I wonder?

I am 100% pro safe borders and being aware of who and why people are entering the U.K. , followed by swift processing ( not a fan of that description) and repatriation when applications are not successful.

I am not in favour of the current proposal.

Whitewavemark2 Tue 07-Mar-23 13:31:09

MaizieD

Well, according to Braverman in the Sun today, those of us who don't back this proposed law are Traitors.

Who agrees with her, I wonder?

Braverman is good at beating the fascist drum.

ExperiencedNotOld Tue 07-Mar-23 13:32:41

Whitewavemark2 and MaizieD - and any other bleeding hearts. When your taxes increase or when you’re living next to an HMO housing five to a room, I suspect you’d be singing a different song then.

GrannyGravy13 Tue 07-Mar-23 13:32:53

Whitewavemark2

GrannyGravy13

Katie59

“I saw that report Whitewavemark2 my immediate thought was if the authorities know they are living/operating in/from the U.K. why the hell are they not behind bars?”

Finding them and proving it in court is the problem, in any case it’s a mafia type operation when you remove one, another will take over, same with drug gangs.

Make the sentences long enough / harsh enough, track their bank accounts and confiscate the profits

Just because these gangs are mafia like is absolutely not an excuse to do nothing.

Yes that sounds good but it won’t work it is just like the drug barons - sentence one and another takes his place.

The only way is to take away their customers.

So - make it easy for those seeking asylum to apply

Give them safe passage

Set up application centres at French ports - set up cooperation and arrangements with countries to whom those failing the test are returned.

Deal with those whose refugee status is confirmed as quickly and efficiently as possible.

The people smugglers would see their income drop so drastically that they will be forced to seek different illegal work😄

I think we agree apart from these criminals cannot be ignored just because someone else will step into their shoes

Using that analogy, why prosecute any criminals?

Urmstongran Tue 07-Mar-23 13:33:48

Maudi

Stop the Boats and Get The Votes

I personally think that if Sunak and Suella Braverman's plan actually works the Red Wall voters will vote Conservative again.

I do too Maudi which, cynically, I think is the reason for much of the howling on the Opposition benches this lunchtime.

A safe, clean basic detention. What a good idea. Staffed with a doctor, a dentist and a nurse. Military bases re-purposed. Hotel, unsecure and (very) expensive accommodation cannot go on infinitum.

I don’t think I’m hard of thinking WhiteWave. This will be a deterrent. Once word gets round, people will stop paying the awful human traffickers as their modus operandi will be bust. People don’t pay extortionate fees for a flaky outcome. They will stay in France or turn 180° and go elsewhere.

MaizieD Tue 07-Mar-23 13:36:23

we cannot afford so many people without any means of supporting themselves!

They are not allowed to support themselves until their status has been recognised

If the Home Off ice was fit for purpose and dealt with them efficiently we wouldn't have to support them for long. They'd either be deported or free to seek work.

MaizieD Tue 07-Mar-23 13:39:48

ExperiencedNotOld

Whitewavemark2 and MaizieD - and any other bleeding hearts. When your taxes increase or when you’re living next to an HMO housing five to a room, I suspect you’d be singing a different song then.

I'd be wanting the Home Office to do its bl**dy job and get a move on with sorting out their applications in a timely fashion.

The reason so many are living in such appalling conditions is that there is an enormous backlog to be processed.

MaizieD Tue 07-Mar-23 13:42:36

A safe, clean basic detention. What a good idea. Staffed with a doctor, a dentist and a nurse. Military bases re-purposed.

Oh yes, Ug?

Can't you hear the howls of outrage about money being spent on this?

But, TBH, I think this is a Unicorns and Sunny Uplands fantasy.

MaizieD Tue 07-Mar-23 13:44:00

GrannyGravy13

MaizieD

Well, according to Braverman in the Sun today, those of us who don't back this proposed law are Traitors.

Who agrees with her, I wonder?

I am 100% pro safe borders and being aware of who and why people are entering the U.K. , followed by swift processing ( not a fan of that description) and repatriation when applications are not successful.

I am not in favour of the current proposal.

I think that makes you a traitor, along with the rest of us bleeding hearts grin

LizzieDrip Tue 07-Mar-23 13:44:55

Well, according to Braverman in the Sun today, those of us who don't back this proposed law are Traitors.

I’m a ‘traitor’ then and a ‘bleeding heart’. Don’t mind - I believe in treating other humans with respect and decency. The UK government turned its back on people in Afghanistan who worked with our forces during the Afghan war - we abandoned them! I would prefer my taxes to help those seeking refuge rather than line the pockets of the already rich! I actually do live near to a HMO and they are much nicer people than the toffee-nosed, racist snobs who complain about them.

Fleurpepper Tue 07-Mar-23 13:45:01

Perhaps JOB is right- it is all very deliberate to concentrate hatred of them foreigners, leftie lawyers and human rights - rather than on the disasters they are creating, by the bucket load.

Wyllow3 Tue 07-Mar-23 13:54:57

"Well, according to Braverman in the Sun today, those of us who don't back this proposed law are Traitors."

What a really, really, nasty piece of work she is. Stirring up hatred in the worse way. And of course, the Sun delighted to report. Surely there are MP's in the Conservative party who will stand up to this?

I think Sunak should be really pressed hard in the HoC on this statement.

growstuff Tue 07-Mar-23 13:56:09

Are the bleeding heart traitors all going to be thrown into a camp too? Or will people be encouraged to throw eggs at us (or something)?

LizzieDrip Tue 07-Mar-23 14:02:06

grin Well they certainly won’t be throwing tomatoes at us Growstuff grin

growstuff Tue 07-Mar-23 14:02:16

Urmstongran

Maudi

Stop the Boats and Get The Votes

I personally think that if Sunak and Suella Braverman's plan actually works the Red Wall voters will vote Conservative again.

I do too Maudi which, cynically, I think is the reason for much of the howling on the Opposition benches this lunchtime.

A safe, clean basic detention. What a good idea. Staffed with a doctor, a dentist and a nurse. Military bases re-purposed. Hotel, unsecure and (very) expensive accommodation cannot go on infinitum.

I don’t think I’m hard of thinking WhiteWave. This will be a deterrent. Once word gets round, people will stop paying the awful human traffickers as their modus operandi will be bust. People don’t pay extortionate fees for a flaky outcome. They will stay in France or turn 180° and go elsewhere.

Are you aware that the Nazis' first concentration camps were used for this purpose? They were used for socialists and others who spoke against the regime. The idea was to give them a hard time but not to kill them, so that they could be released and tell everybody how appalling the conditions were, as a deterrent.

growstuff Tue 07-Mar-23 14:02:58

LizzieDrip

grin Well they certainly won’t be throwing tomatoes at us Growstuff grin

Turnips maybe! grin

Whitewavemark2 Tue 07-Mar-23 14:04:14

GrannyGravy13

Whitewavemark2

GrannyGravy13

Katie59

“I saw that report Whitewavemark2 my immediate thought was if the authorities know they are living/operating in/from the U.K. why the hell are they not behind bars?”

Finding them and proving it in court is the problem, in any case it’s a mafia type operation when you remove one, another will take over, same with drug gangs.

Make the sentences long enough / harsh enough, track their bank accounts and confiscate the profits

Just because these gangs are mafia like is absolutely not an excuse to do nothing.

Yes that sounds good but it won’t work it is just like the drug barons - sentence one and another takes his place.

The only way is to take away their customers.

So - make it easy for those seeking asylum to apply

Give them safe passage

Set up application centres at French ports - set up cooperation and arrangements with countries to whom those failing the test are returned.

Deal with those whose refugee status is confirmed as quickly and efficiently as possible.

The people smugglers would see their income drop so drastically that they will be forced to seek different illegal work😄

I think we agree apart from these criminals cannot be ignored just because someone else will step into their shoes

Using that analogy, why prosecute any criminals?

I’m not saying don’t prosecute, I am saying that it won’t stop the trade. Just like drugs. If there is a market you will always find a supplier.

MaizieD Tue 07-Mar-23 14:07:31

LizzieDrip

grin Well they certainly won’t be throwing tomatoes at us Growstuff grin

Or eggs grin

Turnips, maybe.....