Junior doctors strike

Oreo

From what I’ve read, there are loads of far left junior doctors who’ve managed to get themselves elected (BMA) and they’re doing this as a political statement.They know they can’t have 35%or even half that, nobody can.They don’t care that people could die, or lose appointments or miss surgery.
Bastards in my view.

My goodness - tell that to the next doctor who cares for you. What a very jaundiced view of a caring profession. Or is angry your default emotion?

The government have offered 2.5%.

Oreo

From what I’ve read, there are loads of far left junior doctors who’ve managed to get themselves elected (BMA) and they’re doing this as a political statement.They know they can’t have 35%or even half that, nobody can.They don’t care that people could die, or lose appointments or miss surgery.
Bastards in my view.

Why can't they have even half of 35%, Oreo?

What sound economic reason do you have for making that statement?

To say that doctors don't care for their patients Oreo is ridiculous. Doctors have worked incredibly hard to train and continue to work and study when they qualify. If they just wanted a big pay packet ,they would do something else.

Talking about the here and now GagaJo and in anycase Labour will soon be in power.They won’t be giving massive rises to anyone either.

A lot more people will die if the Tories have their way with the NHS.

From what I’ve read, there are loads of far left junior doctors who’ve managed to get themselves elected (BMA) and they’re doing this as a political statement.They know they can’t have 35%or even half that, nobody can.They don’t care that people could die, or lose appointments or miss surgery.
Bastards in my view.

the general public is just collateral damage in their (Government’s) war against the welfare state.
Thanks for that Doodledog which I believe is true.

The ultimate ideological aim seems to be complete breakdown of an NHS “free at the point of delivery” as unaffordable, so that the Government can then allow the “free market” system to take over.
Just look how successful the US system is where many either cannot afford health care or run up debts paying bills. This is obviously where we’re heading.

Baggs

Two thoughts.

Has there ever been a time in the NHS when junior doctors haven't felt overworked and underpaid? This question is not a comment on whether the current proposed action is justifiable, just a ponder.

Would junior doctors employed by a company not funded through general taxation – so essentially privately employed and paid – ever strike? That's just a ponder too.

Probably not, because they wouldn’t need to. They’d be paid properly in the first place.

I think people may die as a result of this strike. I think exponentially more will die without it.

I support it, with deep sadness that the government’s ideology has led to this.

Just right now, on R4 - a patient awaiting precancerous cells and had op put of twice...

has said quite simply he supports the junior doctors - ad says for god sake why won't the government sit down, through the night if possible, and negotiate?

They are refusing. Why won't they negotiate?

I think they underestimate the levels of public support. I urge people with a Conservative MP to put pressure on their MP's - get them round the table.

Yes, I think I made the point that of the doctors I know and know of, they were/are Labour voters.

I’m also conflicted about this. Half of me is with the junior doctors, a term we should remember covers every doctor who is not a consultant, not just those in or just out of training. The other half is desperately wishing the conflict was over. Mr C is on an ever growing list for cardiac surgery. Initially told 3-4 months, it is now 6-9 months. He gets more unwell as each week passes. It’s more than possible he will be admitted as an emergency at some point simply because his surgery is being postponed. There must be 1000s of people like him.

I attend meetings at our surgery. The GPs have made it plain none would cover for hospital doctors because it would be unfair to their own patients. The part time doctors work part time because they have other responsibilities. It was noted that they all spending increasing amounts of time chasing postponed hospital appointments on behalf of very unwell patients.

When I think about it all I become both sad and very, very worried for the future.

Kamiso

maddyone

…..hope that these Doctor’s families (many of who have normally been tory voters) remember this betrayal in the future.

Just wondering how anyone knows what doctors, or their families, vote in the private ballot box.

The only time an employer told me how I should vote was when I worked in a GP practice and it certainly wasn’t Tory.

My privately educated, neurology Registrar relative, who was a Labour politician and then Leader of the SDP was never affiliated to the Tory party.

maddyone

^…..hope that these Doctor’s families (many of who have normally been tory voters)^ remember this betrayal in the future.

Just wondering how anyone knows what doctors, or their families, vote in the private ballot box.

The only time an employer told me how I should vote was when I worked in a GP practice and it certainly wasn’t Tory.

Can I point out that doctors are NOT on strike in Scotland ...not this week .They are currently being balloted and the result of that is due in May .Most of the public service strikes seen in England have not happened here .
The Scottish government...I know ,you all think its a mess BUT they actually sit down and TALK to people which can avoid strikes ,railworkers settled as did other.Sure in the confines of our FIXED BUDGET we dont have the cash to splash ..thats just one reason we NEED control of our own affairs .

My Florence Nightingale skills are not the best but he’s finally slightly improved. So frightening to be told that hospital admission might be required just at the beginning of a hospital strike and that didn’t allay my anxiety.
111 were on the ball to some extent.

Ronib, of course you must call 999 x

ronib

Just to be clear I have spent the last 3 days with an extremely ill husband and on the verge of calling either the undertaker or 999.

I don’t support the strike strategy and I don’t think the Nhs is fit for purpose.

I've been there and it's a very difficult situation to be in. I think that if you are concerned then you should call 999 and let them decided the urgency. I have at times called 111 and they have sent an ambulance. I am concerned over the strikes and the impact. Apparently NHS bosses want people to think twice before going to A & E, I think that most people do and those that don't will go anyway.
I think that the government actions are as much political as anything else and if a few people die then so be it. They assume that people will blame the doctors as opposed to the political decisions behind the state of the NHS. Just to think that people were concerned about Corbyn getting in.

Just to be clear I have spent the last 3 days with an extremely ill husband and on the verge of calling either the undertaker or 999.

I don’t support the strike strategy and I don’t think the Nhs is fit for purpose.

Yes, nanadana, "broken" does seem to be an often appropriate term now.

Thanks for that info, maiz. I hadn't come across the term JHO before.

Re the term 'junior doctor' referring to all grades up to consultant, it would seem to be a different kettle of fish now, so to speak. Are all grades/levels striking or just some?

Ponderings can never be guaranteed to be relevant. They just happen.

Years of underinvestment means that the NHS is in effect, broken, with all staff struggling to maintain an acceptable service in impossible circumstances. However, with the current state of the economy, how can funds be made available? Windfall taxes on the massive profits made by Energy Companies would help, and I would even suggest that many, myself included, would also accept an increase in personal taxation if we could see it going directly to the NHS. Desperate times call for desperate measures.

Has there ever been a time in the NHS when junior doctors haven't felt overworked and underpaid? This question is not a comment on whether the current proposed action is justifiable, just a ponder.

I can recall junior House Officers striking for better pay and conditions quite a long time ago.

I suspect that many of us oldies might be confusing JHOs with 'junior doctors' (in fact, IIRC, we had a recent thread trying to sort out the difference).

As the term 'junior doctor' now applies to every grade up to consultant I don't know how relevant your 'ponder' is Baggs. I can only recall JHOs complaining about overwork, well, overlong hours on call, really. . I don't recall other grades doing so.

I don't think JHOs exist any more, do they?

Two thoughts.

Has there ever been a time in the NHS when junior doctors haven't felt overworked and underpaid? This question is not a comment on whether the current proposed action is justifiable, just a ponder.

Would junior doctors employed by a company not funded through general taxation – so essentially privately employed and paid – ever strike? That's just a ponder too.

The doctors deserve to be paid a decent salary, and their working hours need addressing. This government just does not seem to care. Roll on the general election.