Junior doctors strike

From what I’ve read, there are loads of far left junior doctors who’ve managed to get themselves elected (BMA) and they’re doing this as a political statement.They know they can’t have 35%or even half that, nobody can.They don’t care that people could die, or lose appointments or miss surgery.
Bastards in my view.

A lot more people will die if the Tories have their way with the NHS.

Talking about the here and now GagaJo and in anycase Labour will soon be in power.They won’t be giving massive rises to anyone either.

To say that doctors don't care for their patients Oreo is ridiculous. Doctors have worked incredibly hard to train and continue to work and study when they qualify. If they just wanted a big pay packet ,they would do something else.

Oreo

From what I’ve read, there are loads of far left junior doctors who’ve managed to get themselves elected (BMA) and they’re doing this as a political statement.They know they can’t have 35%or even half that, nobody can.They don’t care that people could die, or lose appointments or miss surgery.
Bastards in my view.

Why can't they have even half of 35%, Oreo?

What sound economic reason do you have for making that statement?

Oreo

From what I’ve read, there are loads of far left junior doctors who’ve managed to get themselves elected (BMA) and they’re doing this as a political statement.They know they can’t have 35%or even half that, nobody can.They don’t care that people could die, or lose appointments or miss surgery.
Bastards in my view.

My goodness - tell that to the next doctor who cares for you. What a very jaundiced view of a caring profession. Or is angry your default emotion?

The government have offered 2.5%.

Oreo

From what I’ve read, there are loads of far left junior doctors who’ve managed to get themselves elected (BMA) and they’re doing this as a political statement.They know they can’t have 35%or even half that, nobody can.They don’t care that people could die, or lose appointments or miss surgery.
Bastards in my view.

What is it that you’ve read Oreo?

My late Mum lived opposite a doctors surgery. The staff car park was right outside her kitchen window. All the doctors had top of the range cars. A few of them live in the village in hugely expensive properties, on the most exclusive part of the coast.

My friends daughter is a consultant anaesthetist and is so comfortably off that her husband has never had to work and has been a house husband bringing up their 3 kids.

I have never seen a hard up doctor! Some of them really do need to up their game and start seeing patients instead of phoning them, they need to smarten up instead of turning in for work like they’ve just been digging the garden and they need to listen to patients more. I know several people who have now passed away or are seriously ill because their GP didn’t listen to them and failed to refer them to hospital. Nothing ever happens to these GPs and that is very wrong.

GPs and consultants are not junior doctors, Primrose53.

You might find that the digging in the garden clothing is actually scrubs Primrose. My daughter (in fairness not a junior doctor now) has never worn normal clothing at work since Covid, it’s always scrubs.

Gps are required to take two years general training immediately after 5 year degree course and then undertake three years gp training. So two years in general training implies junior doctor status at that point and then trainee gp?

Thankfully so far husband is better and out of crisis and in annoying mode.

Goodness me who cares what they wear as long as they are reasonable neat.

Sometimes a "smart casual" outfit actually puts patients at their ease.

Reasonably not reasonable.

Glad to hear your husband is improving ronib.

However some doctors do five years training in university and hospitals, others like my daughter, spend six years at university and in hospitals. She then graduated for the second time with a medical degree (she had BofSc after her third year) After that doctors are fully qualified as doctors. They spend two years as F1 and F2 gaining experience, not training. In her case, she spent a year in Psychiatric Medicine but decided it wasn’t for her, although I think it was good experience for her. She then went to train to be a GP and spent, as you correctly say, three years doing that.
The highly trained anaesthetist administering an anaesthetic to a patient may well be a junior doctor, but may also be a senior registrar. Junior does not mean a doctor is not fully qualified, it means they haven’t reached Consultant or GP level yet. Junior doctors encompass newly qualified doctors up to senior and highly and competent doctors, who may in fact be the one doing your surgery or deciding your treatment.

Wyllow3

Goodness me who cares what they wear as long as they are reasonable neat.

Sometimes a "smart casual" outfit actually puts patients at their ease.

That was my point Wyllow. My daughter wears scrubs, it’s not smart, may be mistaken for ‘gardening wear’ but is entirely suitable for what she’s doing.

maddyone F1 and F2 gaining experience is not training? I don’t think I quite understand what you mean.

maddyone

Glad to hear your husband is improving ronib.

However some doctors do five years training in university and hospitals, others like my daughter, spend six years at university and in hospitals. She then graduated for the second time with a medical degree (she had BofSc after her third year) After that doctors are fully qualified as doctors. They spend two years as F1 and F2 gaining experience, not training. In her case, she spent a year in Psychiatric Medicine but decided it wasn’t for her, although I think it was good experience for her. She then went to train to be a GP and spent, as you correctly say, three years doing that.
The highly trained anaesthetist administering an anaesthetic to a patient may well be a junior doctor, but may also be a senior registrar. Junior does not mean a doctor is not fully qualified, it means they haven’t reached Consultant or GP level yet. Junior doctors encompass newly qualified doctors up to senior and highly and competent doctors, who may in fact be the one doing your surgery or deciding your treatment.

I think you're wasting your time giving this explanation again, maddyone. This was all explained to ronib on a previous thread but clearly a well engrained belief cannot be shifted by factual information.

No, it’s not ronib, it I appreciate that it’s perhaps difficult to understand. During the initial training period, students are at university or on university placement in hospitals. They are students doctors. They are not paid, even though the last two years they are on clinical experience and doing much of the work that most junior doctors do. The F1 and F2 years are gaining wider experience, but they are fully qualified doctors, are employed, and are paid. It’s different. I appreciate that it’s difficult to understand the differences. Remember doctors are training for the whole of their careers actually because treatments are always improving and changing. Consultants and GPs, considered fully trained, still go to conferences to learn about new developments. In a way, their training never ends.

I know Maizie, but I’m trying. I’ll stop after this I think.

maddyone

No, it’s not ronib, it I appreciate that it’s perhaps difficult to understand. During the initial training period, students are at university or on university placement in hospitals. They are students doctors. They are not paid, even though the last two years they are on clinical experience and doing much of the work that most junior doctors do. The F1 and F2 years are gaining wider experience, but they are fully qualified doctors, are employed, and are paid. It’s different. I appreciate that it’s difficult to understand the differences. Remember doctors are training for the whole of their careers actually because treatments are always improving and changing. Consultants and GPs, considered fully trained, still go to conferences to learn about new developments. In a way, their training never ends.

Junior doctors encompasses all doctors up to fully qualified consultants or GPs in the context of the strike though, doesn’t it?
When a doctor qualifies from medical school, they are a a doctor, but are unable to advance their career until they take more exams to progress to be qualified to apply for each higher grade -if they choose not to do that the only option is to go into non career grade posts. My understanding is that the non career grade junior doctors are also striking, but I’d be very happy to be wrong about that as it would mean that at least there is a minimum degree of cover in hospitals.

Thank you maddyone. I am impressed that MaizieD can remember what was said on a previous thread which I had completely forgotten! I shall try to do better.

Instead of getting wound up in semantics, I think there’s an overwhelming feeling of frustration and disbelief at the way this administration is handling the crisis. I don’t see any fast resolution to the strike.

In my area, private gps are charging £375 per call out plus £50 for a prescription. Then again cheaper than a funeral. Strange times.

I support the strike. My next door neighbour has 3 gp “children” and none work full time. My neighbours can’t understand why as they are only in their 30s but they must earn enough not to need to I suppose. Junior hospital doctors deserve more without a doubt. I’m disgusted with this Government.

The Tories simply don't care that people will die or suffer as a result of their incompetent handling of the 'junior' doctors' dispute. Most of them can afford private hospital treatment on MPs and Ministers' salaries. Watch the BBC programme about Leeds hospitals to understand the struggles doctors have to deliver top quality care against the underfunding and understaffing in the NHS. The only think the Tories worry about is getting re-elected to their cushy jobs. Think about that when voting. Breast Screening Clinic this week for a small lump after quite some delay caused by GP practice mess ups so I hope it's not cancelled.

I do feel that the junior doctors are getting a raw deal. Unfortunately I have terminal cancer and was due to start chemo today but it has been postponed until next Tuesday. I do feel really upset as the chemo might stop or slow the spread and any delay could make all the difference.

I fully support the junior doctors. This government are preparing the nhs to fail.
I also feel headlines about GPs getting £200 to cover a/e are just to increase the negative feelings to General practice. Gps will be so busy in their own practice after a four day bank holiday weekend , they also prob do not have a/ e skills. There are also many gps off with their own children , it’s school holidays and they are parents and grandparents too.

We need to support all of our Nhs and General Practice staff. Once we are taken down the path of American health care most of our country will suffer.