Junior doctors strike

This government is rubbish. Whatever its ideological stance in relation to a national health service, it has a responsibility to ensure the health of the nation - although I suspect many in the Tory party would disagree.

They are out of step with the majority of the voting public and indeed many Tory voters.

This has been incredibly badly handled and its arguments are without merit.

Apparently suddenly we have no money

Tell that to the Mone woman and the failed test and trace which somehow lost billions together with all the PPE monies paid out. Then of course we have thousands spent on MPs expenses like money claimed by Braverman for a second home, when in fact she lives with here parents when in London.

They are taking us and the doctors for fools, but they will eventually discover that we have teeth and will bite really hard when the time comes.

I hope we still have a NHS by then.

TBH I feel very uncomfortable about this four day strike although in principle I support the junior doctors. I saw my cardiac consultant this week and he had been trying to find out which doctors would be in and which would be on strike. They'd been told by the BMA not give this information. He'd also been told by his union not to work for anything less than £238ph (I think this is the rate but it was definitely well over £200) if he worked extra shifts to cover absences. He was an extremely unhappy man! He was very worried about his patients who are often very ill and also about people who have heart attacks during this time as they need immediate care. It's a very difficult situation and people will die as a result of this action. However, if there is an unwillingness to sit down, talk and compromise what can the doctors do? My daughter is a junior doctor, she doesn't work in England but she has resigned from the BMA and would cross the picket line if she had to because she has said she wouldn't want to hold patients to ransom, not all junior doctors support a strike of this length. Sadly it is creating problems in a workforce that is already quite demoralised.

As a retired nurse I absolutely support both striking doctors and nurses. My husband who is on chemotherapy has had excellent immediate treatment from our local A&E department.

"It's a very difficult situation and people will die as a result of this action."
Not picking on you, but how do you know? As far as I can ascertain, none did as a result of the last 3 day action.

Wyllow3

"It's a very difficult situation and people will die as a result of this action."
Not picking on you, but how do you know? As far as I can ascertain, none did as a result of the last 3 day action.

Well I don't know and I don't think that you know that they won't. I'm very conflicted but it's not just patients who need treatment over the next four days we should think about, it's the 1000's of patients who won't get the elective treatment that has been cancelled because of the strike. I just wish we could have a cross party approach to trying to sort the NHS out but pigs might fly!

I can't honestly believe that people think working in A&E is nice. It is bad enough being admitted there for whatever reason, God only knows how difficult it is working there. Talk about knowing the cost of everything and the value of nothing

The doctors deserve to be paid a decent salary, and their working hours need addressing. This government just does not seem to care. Roll on the general election.

Two thoughts.

Has there ever been a time in the NHS when junior doctors haven't felt overworked and underpaid? This question is not a comment on whether the current proposed action is justifiable, just a ponder.

Would junior doctors employed by a company not funded through general taxation – so essentially privately employed and paid – ever strike? That's just a ponder too.

Has there ever been a time in the NHS when junior doctors haven't felt overworked and underpaid? This question is not a comment on whether the current proposed action is justifiable, just a ponder.

I can recall junior House Officers striking for better pay and conditions quite a long time ago.

I suspect that many of us oldies might be confusing JHOs with 'junior doctors' (in fact, IIRC, we had a recent thread trying to sort out the difference).

As the term 'junior doctor' now applies to every grade up to consultant I don't know how relevant your 'ponder' is Baggs. I can only recall JHOs complaining about overwork, well, overlong hours on call, really. . I don't recall other grades doing so.

I don't think JHOs exist any more, do they?

Years of underinvestment means that the NHS is in effect, broken, with all staff struggling to maintain an acceptable service in impossible circumstances. However, with the current state of the economy, how can funds be made available? Windfall taxes on the massive profits made by Energy Companies would help, and I would even suggest that many, myself included, would also accept an increase in personal taxation if we could see it going directly to the NHS. Desperate times call for desperate measures.

Thanks for that info, maiz. I hadn't come across the term JHO before.

Re the term 'junior doctor' referring to all grades up to consultant, it would seem to be a different kettle of fish now, so to speak. Are all grades/levels striking or just some?

Ponderings can never be guaranteed to be relevant. They just happen.

Yes, nanadana, "broken" does seem to be an often appropriate term now.

Just to be clear I have spent the last 3 days with an extremely ill husband and on the verge of calling either the undertaker or 999.

I don’t support the strike strategy and I don’t think the Nhs is fit for purpose.

ronib

Just to be clear I have spent the last 3 days with an extremely ill husband and on the verge of calling either the undertaker or 999.

I don’t support the strike strategy and I don’t think the Nhs is fit for purpose.

I've been there and it's a very difficult situation to be in. I think that if you are concerned then you should call 999 and let them decided the urgency. I have at times called 111 and they have sent an ambulance. I am concerned over the strikes and the impact. Apparently NHS bosses want people to think twice before going to A & E, I think that most people do and those that don't will go anyway.
I think that the government actions are as much political as anything else and if a few people die then so be it. They assume that people will blame the doctors as opposed to the political decisions behind the state of the NHS. Just to think that people were concerned about Corbyn getting in.

Ronib, of course you must call 999 x

My Florence Nightingale skills are not the best but he’s finally slightly improved. So frightening to be told that hospital admission might be required just at the beginning of a hospital strike and that didn’t allay my anxiety.
111 were on the ball to some extent.

Can I point out that doctors are NOT on strike in Scotland ...not this week .They are currently being balloted and the result of that is due in May .Most of the public service strikes seen in England have not happened here .
The Scottish government...I know ,you all think its a mess BUT they actually sit down and TALK to people which can avoid strikes ,railworkers settled as did other.Sure in the confines of our FIXED BUDGET we dont have the cash to splash ..thats just one reason we NEED control of our own affairs .

maddyone

^…..hope that these Doctor’s families (many of who have normally been tory voters)^ remember this betrayal in the future.

Just wondering how anyone knows what doctors, or their families, vote in the private ballot box.

The only time an employer told me how I should vote was when I worked in a GP practice and it certainly wasn’t Tory.

Kamiso

maddyone

…..hope that these Doctor’s families (many of who have normally been tory voters) remember this betrayal in the future.

Just wondering how anyone knows what doctors, or their families, vote in the private ballot box.

The only time an employer told me how I should vote was when I worked in a GP practice and it certainly wasn’t Tory.

My privately educated, neurology Registrar relative, who was a Labour politician and then Leader of the SDP was never affiliated to the Tory party.

I’m also conflicted about this. Half of me is with the junior doctors, a term we should remember covers every doctor who is not a consultant, not just those in or just out of training. The other half is desperately wishing the conflict was over. Mr C is on an ever growing list for cardiac surgery. Initially told 3-4 months, it is now 6-9 months. He gets more unwell as each week passes. It’s more than possible he will be admitted as an emergency at some point simply because his surgery is being postponed. There must be 1000s of people like him.

I attend meetings at our surgery. The GPs have made it plain none would cover for hospital doctors because it would be unfair to their own patients. The part time doctors work part time because they have other responsibilities. It was noted that they all spending increasing amounts of time chasing postponed hospital appointments on behalf of very unwell patients.

When I think about it all I become both sad and very, very worried for the future.

Yes, I think I made the point that of the doctors I know and know of, they were/are Labour voters.

Just right now, on R4 - a patient awaiting precancerous cells and had op put of twice...

has said quite simply he supports the junior doctors - ad says for god sake why won't the government sit down, through the night if possible, and negotiate?

They are refusing. Why won't they negotiate?

I think they underestimate the levels of public support. I urge people with a Conservative MP to put pressure on their MP's - get them round the table.

I think people may die as a result of this strike. I think exponentially more will die without it.

I support it, with deep sadness that the government’s ideology has led to this.

Baggs

Two thoughts.

Has there ever been a time in the NHS when junior doctors haven't felt overworked and underpaid? This question is not a comment on whether the current proposed action is justifiable, just a ponder.

Would junior doctors employed by a company not funded through general taxation – so essentially privately employed and paid – ever strike? That's just a ponder too.

Probably not, because they wouldn’t need to. They’d be paid properly in the first place.

the general public is just collateral damage in their (Government’s) war against the welfare state.
Thanks for that Doodledog which I believe is true.

The ultimate ideological aim seems to be complete breakdown of an NHS “free at the point of delivery” as unaffordable, so that the Government can then allow the “free market” system to take over.
Just look how successful the US system is where many either cannot afford health care or run up debts paying bills. This is obviously where we’re heading.