Identifying as a different gender

Er I am not sure what nationality you are talking about but certainly a female doctor who was from Poland saved mine and my childs life, an english midwife allowed the situation to go on too long, I absolutely should have complained about what happened but it was nothing to do with where either of them came from or their skin colour. And strangely enough I didnt imagine that because I experienced a mistake or poor practice from a particular member of staff that that would apply to all staff with white skin or all midwives for that matter. I am not sure what this has to do with gender issues though.

If you lump all members of a particular nationality together and describe them as rude and with poor nursing standards, you are saying that all members of that nationality are the same.

That, whether you and your friends agree with the definition of the word or not, is racist.

Why is it racism ?

Aren't I allowed to complain ?

Actually , I touched on cultural differences having lived in their country and having friends of the same nationality .

None of my friends would describe me as racist .

They laughed when I told them .

I don’t agree that a girl who identifies as a boy should leave the school as she is still biologically female and if we used that logic, girls’ schools would have to accommodate biological males (boys) who identify as girls, thus making a nonsense of the whole idea of an all girls school - incidentally, girls do much better in single sex schools.

Excellent post from Dickens:

""Good-Morning, Class" or, the name of the year... "Good Morning, 1A". It's a simple and inclusive greeting, and something like it should already have been in place. Then if any teacher refused to comply, it's obvious they're being 'difficult' which would be a clear cut case for disciplinary measures. "

Its still racism though.

Ah well.

Only me?

The rudeness and the poor nursing standard was only demonstrated by one
Nationality and they intimidated the other nurses .

I received an apology.

And I noticed that they were mixed in with the other nurses and not allowed to form groups congregating around nurses stations - not answering people complaining about their work , the patients , their visitors, the ward manager , their salary /conditions plus being rude and rough with the patients .

Its like being in a timewarp, or in Groundhog Day or something.

No girls call themselves boys in this story, and nobody was wrongfully dismissed.

Maybe RTFT?

The world has gone mad, hasn't it?

Honestly, if the girl who now calls herself a boy has her parents' approval for this, then he should be attending a boys' school or a mixed school, not a girls' school.

I trust the teacher gets her union to sue for wrongful dismissal.

I assume they were white Anglo Saxons then?

I was accused of racism when I complained about the appalling rudeness and poor nursing standards of a particular nationality at our local hospital .

That is actually racism...

It never stops .

I was accused of racism when I complained about the appalling rudeness and poor nursing standards of a particular nationality at our local hospital .

The other patients visitors were too scared to complain .

I'm really fed up with this nonsense .
I deliberately say actress .
Female is female .
Male is male .
No shame in that .
And no shame is being transgender or whatever - let's stop making such a bloody fuss about absolutely nothing .

I'm sure that this poor teacher felt utterly humiliated by the reprimand .
It's difficult enough to maintain discipline .
Now she has no respect .

I'm more concerned that Putin could attack us with a Poseidon missile than using the wrong form of address .

Babsbada

Beam me up!

?

biglouis

*I don't think. It's not about split personalities, but I suspect that there is a certain amount of 'look how special I am' involved, as the majority of people are not exclusively one gender or the other - they would be parodies of manhood or womanhood otherwise*

My nephew and I had a discussion about this and he would agree with the above remarks - that it is a group of people who have earmarked themselves out as "different and special" for the sake of it. I dont agree. I believe that declaring oneself non binary has more to do with rejecting the culturally defined stereotypes of femininity and masculinity and all that implies.

These stereotypes permeate our every day life and define out existence if we allow them to.

That's interesting, bl, as I see it exactly the other way round. In order to reject the stereotypes people are reinforcing them. I am Mrs Average, but am currently wearing jeans, DMs and a sweatshirt. My husband is washing up as I type. We shared childcare, I do all the IT in the house, and many other aspects of our lives are not classic gender stereotypes. I can't think of anyone I know who does things very differently. Not fundamentally anyway - the details may vary. Sex/gender stereotypes were breaking down after years of feminism, but the trans lobby wants them back, and claims that if you don't fit one sex stereotype (which is all 'gender' is) then you must be in 'the wrong body' and should 'transition' to the opposite sex.

Suggesting that people like us (most people?) need to make a statement about their 'gender' is saying that there is something different about those who do so. What is it?

In my experience (reasonably considerable, as I worked in a university, and still do part-time consultancy in one) non-binary people are very often young, angst-ridden and socially awkward. I have wondered if the fact that so few people fit a gendered stereotype but sex and gender are now being conflated so much is making them unsure about where they fit, and their social uncertainty makes them search for an answer. If they know that they are one sex or the other, a non-binary persona can seem to be the answer. That's total supposition though - I am not an expert in any way.

In Arts-related contexts there is a certain advantage to being able to identify into minorities, as there are often special funds or awards for them, so non-binary people are over-represented there, too.

Identifying as non-binary (or trans) is the ultimate in making so-called 'gender' define our lives. Why not stick with doing our own thing as people were doing already?

Beam me up!

I don't think. It's not about split personalities, but I suspect that there is a certain amount of 'look how special I am' involved, as the majority of people are not exclusively one gender or the other - they would be parodies of manhood or womanhood otherwise

My nephew and I had a discussion about this and he would agree with the above remarks - that it is a group of people who have earmarked themselves out as "different and special" for the sake of it. I dont agree. I believe that declaring oneself non binary has more to do with rejecting the culturally defined stereotypes of femininity and masculinity and all that implies.

These stereotypes permeate our every day life and define out existence if we allow them to.

62Granny

Wyllow3

No. She was on a one term contract and it was not renewed.

the story is actually quite a bit more complicated: it wasn't at all just about the "good afternoon girls:
I tried to find a reasonably unbiased article and LBC seems the best available.

www.lbc.co.uk/news/female-teacher-apologise-good-afternoon-girls-20k-a-year

We still only have her account not the schools.

Excuse me for sounding thick , I was never very good at understanding the complexity of the English language and pronouns, but in the article it says that the children had put a list on the board with their preferred pronouns and one of them had put " they/them " but in my understanding those are plural? How can you identify as plural do you have a split personality or is a typical teenage stupid why of saying "look at me and how clever I am"
( not)

62granny, they/them are usually plural, but are also used if you don’t know the gender/sex of the person, like ‘ Somebody broke the window. They threw a brick through it.’
I think the ‘preferred pronoun’ business is a bit of a nonsense, as you would rarely, if ever, use it when addressing the person, just when referring to them. I suppose it’s more respectful than ‘it’!

Don’t you think that the youth of today just MIGHT be taking the p* out of their elders?! I have a 16 grandson and an 11year old granddaughter…and I get the distinct impression that they are laughing at all this nonesense ! The boy said to me a few weeks ago ….” I think I’ll identify as a female today” ..I asked why …and he said “ I really don’t feel like playing rugby today”! ….🤷🏻‍♀️

My oldest granddaughter goes to an all girl private school and I do agree if a girl wishes to be a boy then she is in the wrong school and I’ve got a friend who’s grandson as also said he wants to be a girl he’s 15 and as i said how does he know he’s not just gay. My uncle didn’t come out until he was 25 he even married a woman because he wasn’t sure so how can a child know what exactly he or she are. I think a lot of them are just following a trend. As it’s a sign of expressing yourself trying to find who they are.

Callistemon21

What age are the pupils in this particular case?

I do think, if 12 to 15, they are at an impressionable age. These topics should be discussed but whether or not such emphasis should be put on them in schools, such as asking pupils that age to do a project on what they think about transgender issues, how they feel about transgender women in sport, is a debatable issue.

Eleven.

And the teacher just said 'good morning girls'. AFAIK this is not about her refusing to use 'they' to the child in question, but about a general greeting to the whole class (in a girls' school) which the child saw as exclusionary.

I agree that these things should be debated in the way you suggest, but what teacher is going to risk that if someone can lose her job for addressing a group of girls in a girls' school as 'girls'? It would be walking on eggshells.

I was on a one year contract (after I had been forced to resign when my father became ill but subsequently died) and was promised before I took it up that if a post became available, it would be made permanent. It wasn't and I tried to explore the possibility that being forced to resign was unfair dismissal. The Union Rep checked, said I had a case and went to see the Head who pointed out that she was also on an annual contract which had lasted many years but that could change. Needless to say, she was unable to take my case further. It may not have been a sacking because I only had the one year contract but it wasn't as cut and dried as it looked on paper.

As for the teacher in the OP's post, I think that the discussion in more nuanced than "It's a girl's school so put up or leave." It sounds like the "philosophy and religious education teacher" was completely unaccepting of the whole situation and didn't act in a way that was respectful to the girls she was teaching who were learning about gender issues that, like it or not, are part of a changing society.

I am sure historically many single sex schools had pupils who didn't feel comfortable at times with how they felt or were treated. . Its how they could voice it thats changed. Lots still to be learnt about how that is said and how it is listened to.

What age are the pupils in this particular case?

I do think, if 12 to 15, they are at an impressionable age. These topics should be discussed but whether or not such emphasis should be put on them in schools, such as asking pupils that age to do a project on what they think about transgender issues, how they feel about transgender women in sport, is a debatable issue.

Blondiescot

'They/them' are now in common usage as non-binary pronouns. Reading this thread makes me wonder how many of those commenting have ever actually met someone who uses those pronouns.

Yes.
Someone we knew growing up, a little older than our DGC, who announced that she is now to be known as they/them.

I think they/them have always been used in speech as non-specific pronouns but have now taken on a more definite meaning.

For many students, the gender issues are an excellent way of being noticed. I do understand (I'm a Biologist) that there are various types and degrees of intersex individuals but ideas often change as an individual comes out of their teens.

Unchallenging acceptance can smooth relationships and reducing confrontation with gender neutral vocabulary is effective. This generally enables a pleasant atmosphere to prevail. I think too much importance is often ascribed to whims but deciding which student will leave the phase behind is almost impossible.

So I found that with least fuss calm is achieved fastest and useful work can proceed.