Dominic Raab

Primrose53

And the biggest bully of the lot, Bercow is keeping a very low profile.

Probably because he’s no longer an MP…..

See also Patrick Cockburn’s piece in today’s i newspaper; it mentions Raab as foreign secretary and the general incompetence of the government leadership.

Allsorts

Raab is just one in a long line of ministers bullied out, for that is what it is, soon everyone will be going to work in protective vests, name displayed on their fronts and a body camera. It is basically impossible to govern when sections of the population want to bring democracy down, about supposed hurt feelings. If it wasn’t so daft and serious it would be laughable.
Doubt much will be done about Dr Martin Whyte the doctors strike leader, joking about Jews being gassed and the Queens corpse. It is

It seems to me that we are close to blaming the victims. Yet the results of the enquiry into Raab are absolutely clear, and Adam Tolley KC, who led the enquiry, was appointed by a Conservative Prime Minister, and has a reputation for absolute integrity.

It seems to me that the bullying lies in Raab’s character - one of manipulation, gaslighting, blaming others, setting people against each other, using a combination of charm then put downs, rather than overt shouting or strong verbal violence. The affect of this goes far beyond being offensive or unpleasant. Its about how someone in power, working with and managing treats those who work for and/or with them.

I do think we are more aware of the complexity of bullying these days. Recent revelations in the police and fire service as to the nature of the at of manipulation by those in power are beginning to teach us a lot. The CBI - and I'm one who used to see them as rrelaible and trustworthy as regards representing business interests, is now in the spotlight.

To address intention: Someone like Raab doesn’t perceive himself as having done wrong. Yet the inquiry results are quite clear: bullying did take place.

It is how he functions, and he is very clever: look how he has immediately managed to turn blame around and how quickly.

I listened to Raab in his interview saying, in effect, if you cannot shout at people they will not work well. In fact if you shout at people they cannot work well and will not because they resent being hollered at.

I was a departmental manage for 12 years and I never once even raised my voice to any of my staff - and as is inevitable, I had one or two who pushed me to my limit. But I got far more done by keeping my temper and managing my staff than several managers around me got by shouting at people.

M0nica - absolutely. I tried to manage my team in my career with respect and good humour. Managing people and resources is what managers do - if they can't do it well they should consider another career. I understand that, since Brexit, we are very short of fruit pickers....

Casdon

Primrose53

And the biggest bully of the lot, Bercow is keeping a very low profile.

Probably because he’s no longer an MP…..

Better known as the Speaker of The House of Commons and a massive bully.

Primrose53

Casdon

Primrose53

And the biggest bully of the lot, Bercow is keeping a very low profile.

Probably because he’s no longer an MP…..

Better known as the Speaker of The House of Commons and a massive bully.

Was. No longer an MP since 2019. I’m not sure what you mean, do you expect an ex MP to raise his head and say ‘I did the same’ four years after he left the job?

Primrose53

Casdon

Primrose53

And the biggest bully of the lot, Bercow is keeping a very low profile.

Probably because he’s no longer an MP…..

Better known as the Speaker of The House of Commons and a massive bully.

At least he was good at his job. Which is more than could ever be said of Raab.

But I really don't know what he has to do with this thread.

MaizieD

Primrose53

Casdon

Primrose53

And the biggest bully of the lot, Bercow is keeping a very low profile.

Probably because he’s no longer an MP…..

Better known as the Speaker of The House of Commons and a massive bully.

At least he was good at his job. Which is more than could ever be said of Raab.

But I really don't know what he has to do with this thread.

Just more deflection?

If Raab really believes that if you cannot shout at people they will not work well then there’s no hope. He should never be put in a position of authority over anyone.

I see that the cultural wars are now including the civil service as well as immigrants now.

I read that the right of the Tory party is looking to politicise the civil service, similar to the USA i assume.

One thing we can be proud of is the separation of the executive and administration. It has served us excellently for over a century and ensures continuity and smooth running in the event if the government collapsing, or indeed incompetence etc.

Political appointments are never for the benefit of the country.

I thought this was always the intention Whitewave. Because the USA style of government has improved the lives of Johnson and Sunak, they will believe we should have it here so that "people like them" can rape the county's wealth and claim it for themselves.

Interestingly and sadly, the members of the general population claiming ownership of "Britishness" seem to have no idea how government actually works in the USA (or here?) or how different, mainly worse, their lives would have been under that sort of culture they often laud.

'Yes Minister' always rang bells with me. Obviously, Raab didn't have a Sir Humphrey.

Aveline

'Yes Minister' always rang bells with me. Obviously, Raab didn't have a Sir Humphrey.

Raab was no Jim Hacker, that’s for sure.

Aveline

'Yes Minister' always rang bells with me. Obviously, Raab didn't have a Sir Humphrey.

Were you a Civil Servant Aveline? It would be interesting to hear how you found it.

M0nica

I listened to Raab in his interview saying, in effect, if you cannot shout at people they will not work well. In fact if you shout at people they cannot work well and will not because they resent being hollered at.

I was a departmental manage for 12 years and I never once even raised my voice to any of my staff - and as is inevitable, I had one or two who pushed me to my limit. But I got far more done by keeping my temper and managing my staff than several managers around me got by shouting at people.

Tolley found no persuasive evidence of shouting.

Nor did he find the reverse.

I have just seen a headline that says "Raab's unpleasant behaviour is a symptom of his mediocrity'".
Quite.

Whitewavemark2

Nor did he find the reverse.

Finding no persuasive evidence means, politely, not believing those who made the allegation.

That’s not entirely true, is it? The report found that he had an interruptive style of cutting people off and that his behaviour was intimidating and abrasive. He was a bully, there’s no dressing it up.

Is there a legal definition of shouting GSM?

That’s not shouting though Casdon. I merely took issue with the suggestion that he shouted.
Don’t be silly Mamie.

Mamie

I have just seen a headline that says "Raab's unpleasant behaviour is a symptom of his mediocrity'".
Quite.

What did he actually achieve?

I get the impression he (and many in this government) cannot work with reality. Sometimes they cannot work with the speed (never fast enough) at which things can be done; but they wont take on the planning ahead that would help.

Sometimes the money and resources are not there but, nevertheless, they want to throw both at the problem. Sometimes the want people to work without any resources (never them, of course).

I'm sure others could add to this list, but reality has to be faced in the end, whether the Conservatives like it or not. They cannot blame the Civil Service for its existence.

Allsorts - how do you explain that other ministers after him seem to work fine with the very same staff?

Lord Maude is suggesting a reappraisal of the way a minister and permanent secretary are made to work together. The whole way of thinking in the Uk is in a marriage, if you don’t get along with your partner, change them. At present, a minister can’t divorce his PS even if it’s no fault!