Dominic Raab

Siope

Yep, that’s the trouble with Ministers these days: no resilience.

Just a lot of snowflakes, as Moggy would say.

MaizieD

growstuff

Maizie I'm not sure that's absolutely true. My grandfather made it to the top of the civil service tree and he worked in the same department from 1919 until the 1960s. I currently have other relatives who have worked in the same department for decades.

I'm not altogether sure, but it was a very long time ago.

I'm reporting on what Professor Chapman told us in the '90s and what Dunt has more recently deduced, after extensive interviews and research.

But surely we've always known that they start as generalists. And we get situations like the setting up of the Department for Exiting the EU where huge numbers were drafted into a completely unprecedented new department.

Just reading the reports.

What I do know is that my grandfather worked in the same department all his life, even through a couple of name changes, and made it to gonghood. My grandfather was a Conservative to the core, but had to work directly with Attlee. I doubt very much if he let his politics get in the way of his work. What he didn't know about his specialism wasn't worth knowing.

I have a cousin who is a senior civil service scientist, who has also always worked in the same department, although he had a break when he worked in industry. He has a PhD and is no way an amateur.

My daughter was a Fast Track trainee, who has worked in two different departments and a quango (with civil service terms and conditions) and had a break when she worked in industry. She's a HR specialist, so I guess her skills are transferable and has been very well-trained and supported by the civil service.

The son of a friend is currently a SpAd in the Treasury, having previously been a civil servant in the DSHC. He was head-hunted and I understand there was a financial reward. Funnily enough, he doesn't support the Conservatives.

It seems to me that at least some of the recommendations of the Fulton Report were taken on board.

Whitewavemark2

growstuff

Maizie I'm not sure that's absolutely true. My grandfather made it to the top of the civil service tree and he worked in the same department from 1919 until the 1960s. I currently have other relatives who have worked in the same department for decades.

That will be their choice though. You can apply at anytime to work in another department. However those with decades of experience on a particular subject are gold mines, resulting in what appears intractable problems easily solved. Never underestimate experience.

I doubt if there are that many openings at senior level.

Mamie which country are we talking about for minimal delays in medical treatment? And when? The Uk has a backlog of 7.2 million cases apparently waiting for treatments. That’s just exceptional to my way of thinking.

I was talking about France ronib. Fast track for medical treatment, resulting paperwork very time-consuming.

Mamie I absolutely agree about French burocracy. We do not live in France, just own a house. We are not even informed when there are law changes and we need to complete more paperwork.

Arranging funerals here can be quite annoying too. Fair bit of paperwork plus loads of inheritance taxes.7.2 million people in the Uk would be foolish not to choose paperwork over neglect and no treatment.

DH is in the process of investigation / hospitalisation (one working day from GP to hospital consultant appointment). Every bit of the system needs; identity card, health card, top-up insurance, proof of source of health cover, electricity bill for proof of address. The uploading process is a bit wobbly, though they still like fax if available.

Mamie Look if you don’t mind me saying, a bit of organisation would help. You know what is needed so just be ready. You seem to be unable to understand how very fortunate you are to have access to timely treatment.

ronib

Mamie Look if you don’t mind me saying, a bit of organisation would help. You know what is needed so just be ready. You seem to be unable to understand how very fortunate you are to have access to timely treatment.

If I were Mamie I'd object very strongly to you telling me to be more organised.

Are you always so patronising, ronib?

I am extremely organised Ronib. I have everything required as a PDF, but is is frustrating when systems do not communicate with each other and duplication is required when you are already dealing with a stressful situation. I am very aware of how lucky we are to live here and have access to such a wonderful health system. I still would not look to French systems of administration if I were seeking to reform the UK.

ronib

Mamie Look if you don’t mind me saying, a bit of organisation would help. You know what is needed so just be ready. You seem to be unable to understand how very fortunate you are to have access to timely treatment.

I love GN😄😄😄😄

MaizieD and I am objecting very strongly to someone who doesn’t understand how appalling the health system is here. Most people would gladly have a pdf of essential information if it meant seeing a gp one day and being referred the next.
I am sure that with even more strikes on the horizon, our health system will continue to deteriorate.

I do understand ronib. I have children, grandchildren, extended family and friends in the UK.
You were advocating learning from the French administration.
I was just pointing out that while France is a wonderful country to live in, I would suggest that the administration / bureaucracy is not something the UK would benefit from, as Francis Maude seems to suggest.
Not sure why you felt obliged to turn it into a personal attack.

ronib

MaizieD and I am objecting very strongly to someone who doesn’t understand how appalling the health system is here. Most people would gladly have a pdf of essential information if it meant seeing a gp one day and being referred the next.
I am sure that with even more strikes on the horizon, our health system will continue to deteriorate.

With all due respect, health systems have little to do with how governments' civil services are organised.

Indeed growstuff. What the Conservative government should learn from France is that you have to raise taxes to fund a health service properly.
You certainly don't need to introduce layers of administration or appoint senior civil servants who are politically partisan (not that I can find any evidence that the French do that).

Mamie I must be veering towards the Raab style of thinking and I am very sorry if you thought it was a personal attack. But of late, it has felt as if the Uk is seriously adrift in a number of ways. All I meant to say that at least you know what is required of you and you do seem to have a working health system. Be grateful as we are in meltdown.

I understand that ronib. I watch with horror some of the things that are going on in the UK and fear for the future of my grandchildren.
All I was trying to say is that the one thing that doesn't need to happen in the UK is the introduction of a French style bureaucracy.
We know how lucky we are to be here.

Indeed growstuff. What the Conservative government should learn from France is that you have to raise taxes to fund a health service properly.

I'm sorry, Mamie, but it is not lack of money that is preventing the government from funding the NHS properly. It is the government's choice. They do not want to fund the NHS. If they wanted to the money would be there.

There is actually an essential difference between France and the UK as far as state spending is concerned and that is that France is in the euro and cannot issue as much as it likes of its currency. It is constrained by what the ECB will allow. The UK has never had that problem, and still doesn't. We have a sovereign currency, we can issue as much as we like if there are resources to be bought.

And, as I keep pointing out, the money issued will circulate in the domestic economy, which will sustain growth, and most of it will eventually return to the Treasury by way of taxation.

I agree about the level of bureaucracy here in France Mamie it's very wearing. The normally excellent French health service is showing cracks now though. Things are particularly difficult in rural areas where there is a dearth of GPs. I have been trying to make an appointment with a chest clinic in a nearby city only to be told they are overwhelmed and not taking appointments for the time being. I have managed to get an appointment in a town further away. Dentists are retiring or leaving and not replaced. The city clinic I normally attend is now charging for parking for the first time ever. All signs of the times I'm afraid.

The Marsh family on Raab.

Enjoy (or not, depending on your POV...

www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0PBT78ndrA

Thank you Willow. They never fail as far as I'm concerned.

Raab should have been sacked for his negligence when , as Foreign Secretary he refused to return from his holiday in Crete whilst the catastrophic evacuation of Kabul left many good people who had worked for the UK behind.

Raab should have been sacked for the sorry state of the English judicial system when he was justice minister. How many rape victims in England ever get justice, even if they wait four years for their case to go to trial?

Raab has proved himself to be thoroughly incompetent in every ministerial post he has had.

Raab "resigning" over bulling is like Al Capone being got for tax evasion.