I’m not counting my chickens

I wonder how much tactical, anyone but the Tories, voting there has been? It would go some way to explaining why the Tory losses weren’t gains for one dominant alternative.

Keir fills me with every hope for the future. Having said that, the Conservatives will have left the country in such a mess it won’t be a quick fix.

The Conservative party have certainly had a trouncing but is it because Labour is a government that will make a wonderful difference or just because the tories have been so bad.
Nothing about Keir Starmer fills me with any hope for the future so far.

The Lib Dem’s and greens often do better in local than general. FPTP and tactical voting can influence at general elections. If the contest is between tories and Lib Dem’s, I’d vote lib dem, I wouldn’t ‘waste’ a vote on Labour/green/independent.

In the council elections, independents have done ok. They tend to be right wing in my experience

Tories now in disaster territory - lost over 1000 seats -

M0nica

Sorry, Casdon but as results come out the gap between Labour seats won and seats won by Lib Dems and Greens grows larger and larger.

People are turning away from the Conservatives big time, but less than half are turning to Labour, the majority prefer something else. This cannot be be good news for Labour, no matter how tbey inteprete the figures.

I’m not disagreeing with what you say Monica, what I posted was merely a comparison of the actual position for each party with the prediction before the results came in on Sky News, I used their words, not my own.

Unfortunately, Sky hadn’t included the Lib Dems, a point I made in the original predictions post I made earlier this morning on this thread.

Sorry, Casdon but as results come out the gap between Labour seats won and seats won by Lib Dems and Greens grows larger and larger.

People are turning away from the Conservatives big time, but less than half are turning to Labour, the majority prefer something else. This cannot be be good news for Labour, no matter how tbey inteprete the figures.

MaizieD

^How many people believe that voter fraud is a significant problem in the British electoral system, I wonder.^

Well, a few people on this forum seem to think that it is, though without any evidence beyond their belief. And I understand that this is a message being put about by some tories.. falling on receptive ears?

Quite.

But where's the proof - the high profile, prolific cases that have been unearthed?

It's a nonsense.

M0nica

I have just being looking at the overall results. While the Conservatives are doing badly - as expected, Labour is not doing particularly well.

Only half the seats lost by the Conservatives have gone to Labour. The other half have gone to the Lib Dems and Green party. In fact those last two parties between them have won more new council seats than Labour.

The Conservatives have been wiped out on my local council. Labour disappeared some years ago. We now have 23 Lib Dems and 3 Green Party councillors

According to the Sky assumptions I posted earlier, these are likely to be the results and interpretation:

1,000 losses: A very bad night, with a third of all seats defended by the Conservatives lost. (Current actual losses 866)

Labour 450 gains: These results would be better than in 2022, when local elections took place in Greater London. (Current actual gains 451)

35 councils are yet to declare, so these are ballpark figures.

To be turned away does not mean that a vote was not made. It is possible in theory to return home and to find the appropriate id. Theoretically if not practically therefore as usual impossible to determine for sure!

I hope that we'll have a better idea of who was turned away when the Returning Officers have reported their numbers to the Electoral Commission and the data has been compiled and analysed.

Until then it's a bit pointless to argue about it.

I have just being looking at the overall results. While the Conservatives are doing badly - as expected, Labour is not doing particularly well.

Only half the seats lost by the Conservatives have gone to Labour. The other half have gone to the Lib Dems and Green party. In fact those last two parties between them have won more new council seats than Labour.

The Conservatives have been wiped out on my local council. Labour disappeared some years ago. We now have 23 Lib Dems and 3 Green Party councillors

Freya5

MaizieD

How are people going to have a say in how they would like the government to run if they have been deprived of their vote?

I feel like shouting, no one has been deprived of a vote. Personal responsibility comes to mind. As one voter said, "its not as though we weren't advised about it." How come then Labour won seats, people obviously didn't forget their ID, did they !!!

What does Labour winning seats have to do with it?

I am so glad to hear that you are an efficient and law abiding citizen who does everything you are told to do by the government and know about every new regulation that the government passes.

Some people aren't like that. You just have to accept that some people are different from you and stop blaming them for being different. I'm afraid that shouting 'personal responsibility' just doesn't do the trick...

Fleurpepper The point I was making was that despite newspapers suggesting that those being turned away were distressed pensioners (institutional ageism), in fact the problem was probably spread evenly across all age groups - the differential treatment of bus passes was an example of how it could happen.

On the other hand turnout was, I believe around 30% and I would suggest voters were skewed towards older voters.

I’ve had a Disabled Persons bus pass for years, last time it was renewed they accepted the photo I uploaded for my Blue Badge. I’m not sure if it will change to an older persons bus pass when I have to renew it next year.

MaizieD

How are people going to have a say in how they would like the government to run if they have been deprived of their vote?

I feel like shouting, no one has been deprived of a vote. Personal responsibility comes to mind. As one voter said, "its not as though we weren't advised about it." How come then Labour won seats, people obviously didn't forget their ID, did they !!!

Primrose53

Kier Starmer hyper excited on the lunchtime news. Labour did very badly around here and we never even had any literature through the door from them. Never saw a single Labour sign up anywhere.

I think he has conveniently forgotten that Labour did so badly in the last election that the results were the worst since WWII. Strong Labour seats that had never been Conservative were lost to them all over the country.

I expect Labour knows that, so didn't waste its money and energy on you - same here!

GrannyGravy13

Fleurpepper

MOnica- and yet- OAP Bus passes- approved for voting
Young People's Travel Card - NOT??? Both photo ID!

I think it is to do with the fact that Pensioners Bus Passes are issued by the Council and you have to verify who you are, age etc to obtain one.

When my AC had Young Peoples Travel Cards you just rock up to the local Bus Station Office with a photo from a Photo Booth and hey presto you have your card.

Bus passes for older people are accepted as voter ID.

From memory, I applied for mine online and sent a digital photo. I guess Essex County Council checked my address against the electoral role, but nobody checked whether the photo is actually me. For all they know, I could have used the address and details of a friend who didn't want a bus pass.

How many people believe that voter fraud is a significant problem in the British electoral system, I wonder.

Well, a few people on this forum seem to think that it is, though without any evidence beyond their belief. And I understand that this is a message being put about by some tories.. falling on receptive ears?

GrannyGravy13

Fleurpepper

MOnica- and yet- OAP Bus passes- approved for voting
Young People's Travel Card - NOT??? Both photo ID!

I think it is to do with the fact that Pensioners Bus Passes are issued by the Council and you have to verify who you are, age etc to obtain one.

When my AC had Young Peoples Travel Cards you just rock up to the local Bus Station Office with a photo from a Photo Booth and hey presto you have your card.

When my AC had Young Peoples Travel Cards you just rock up to the local Bus Station Office with a photo from a Photo Booth and hey presto you have your card.

I appreciate that there's a difference in the standards applied to obtaining the cards, but it's still a photo of the holder, with their name and the only other thing that the young voter has to get correct to get a ballot paper is their address. I really cannot see that all over the country there are hundreds of young people who have obtained travel cards under false pretences, by pretending to be someone they aren't and have managed to register to vote at the address belonging to the person in whose name they have got the card...

To make any difference at all to the result of most* elections this would have to be a well organised and widespread operation.

Why are we fostering an atmosphere of widespread distrust of 'others'?

(*yes, I know that sometimes results are decided by a very few votes)

Fleurpepper

MOnica- and yet- OAP Bus passes- approved for voting
Young People's Travel Card - NOT??? Both photo ID!

I think it is to do with the fact that Pensioners Bus Passes are issued by the Council and you have to verify who you are, age etc to obtain one.

When my AC had Young Peoples Travel Cards you just rock up to the local Bus Station Office with a photo from a Photo Booth and hey presto you have your card.

MOnica- and yet- OAP Bus passes- approved for voting
Young People's Travel Card - NOT??? Both photo ID!

In my younger electioneering days, we used to quote a, no doubt, apocryphal, Irish saying 'vote early, vote often'.

But on the mainland, as far as I know, the problem, and that fairly small, is with postal votes.

Perhaps it was introduced to bring us in alignment with other countries. Possibly the relevant authorities know something we do not know.

I was surprised to see one of the papers suggesting that it disadvantaged older people. I am sure some were, but most older people have driving licences, passports, bus passes or other identification, so I wouldn't think the numbers having problems were any higher than in any other age-group.

Just another case of casual institutionalised agism.

Kier Starmer hyper excited on the lunchtime news. Labour did very badly around here and we never even had any literature through the door from them. Never saw a single Labour sign up anywhere.

I think he has conveniently forgotten that Labour did so badly in the last election that the results were the worst since WWII. Strong Labour seats that had never been Conservative were lost to them all over the country.

dayvidg

Of 47 nations surveyed in Europe—a place where, on other matters, American progressives often look to with envy—all but one country requires a government-issued photo voter ID to vote. The exception is the U.K., and even there voter IDs are mandatory in Northern Ireland for all elections and in parts of England for local elections.
www.dailysignal.com/2021/06/01/in-europe-voter-id-is-the-norm/

I can't decipher if the ID is national identity cards, or if there is specific ID for voting?

I'm just a tad suspicious of the government's apparent sudden interest in voter-fraud because there's been little hoo-ha about such fraud over the last decade or so - though obviously I might have missed it in the news. What I mean is, we don't seem to be a nation that is plagued by it.

And why is an older person's buss pass acceptable but a travel card for a younger person NOT? Do they believe young people are more likely to be fraudulent voters? Why make it more difficult for young people?

Unless there's a logical reason why one pass is acceptable but the other is not - then of course people will be suspicious. Either the thinking is that the young will be more inclined to vote fraudulently, or they will be more likely to vote for the Left... nothing else makes much sense. And it is discriminatory.

How many people believe that voter fraud is a significant problem in the British electoral system, I wonder.