Lords lay into the governments illegal migration bill

Volver3 The majority of migrants are not being housed in Scotland so you are very unaware of the impact in the south east of England.

Germanshepherdsmum

Be realistic volver, we can’t do both at the same time. This is not the government setting up false dichotomies, it’s basic common sense.

Yes we can.

I'm surprised that you are one of the ones falling for this GSM. I thought you had more sophisticated thought processes.

At the moment neither the homeless nor the migrants are being looked after… whatever being looked after means.
And lots of young families are also struggling financially hence the decline in births. Not going that well for the majority…

volver3

Dinahmo

Germanshepherdsmum

Is it not natural for us to want to look after ‘our own’ first? Those living on the streets or families in one-room B&B accommodation, having to be out between breakfast and dinner no matter what the weather or their state of health, for example?

Don't you think that's our fault (at least some of us) who voted in this dreadful govt and their appalling policies.

The government are doing a great job of setting up false dichotomies.

We can either look after the homeless or we can look after the refugees.

And people believe them. 🤦🏼‍♀️

... and this!

Be realistic volver, we can’t do both at the same time. This is not the government setting up false dichotomies, it’s basic common sense.

Simply Volver 3 .. I could not house and feed 22 children so I limited the size of my family to a manageable size for our particular circumstances.
Surely any nation state should have control over the number of people unexpectedly arriving here/needing help in leaving France? Something is not adding up.

volver3

ronib

If we have about 700k to one million migrants annually, it might explain why this country is struggling to house and process claims. It’s not ‘anti migrants’ to worry about the practical implications of migration policy. Figures will be out later this month.

Well, it would explain that if you are inclined to believe what Suella and her acolytes tell you. In the real world, however...

I've become aware how literal people are. That there are only so many houses and they should go to the "deserving" British citizens. There's still a vestige of the kind of thinking that said, ^they're coming over here, taking our jobs, marrying our women...^

... and this.

MaizieD

I wish I could wave a magic wand and change the anti immigrants into citizens of a foreign country devastated by war, or where they would be persecuted for their religious beliefs, or their sexuality, and where the 'normal routes' of applying for visas are non existent...

Or even just plant in them some understanding of the international law and conventions regarding refugees and asylum seekers... and how the tories have been engineering the current situation over the past few years...

This.

Dinahmo

Germanshepherdsmum

Is it not natural for us to want to look after ‘our own’ first? Those living on the streets or families in one-room B&B accommodation, having to be out between breakfast and dinner no matter what the weather or their state of health, for example?

Don't you think that's our fault (at least some of us) who voted in this dreadful govt and their appalling policies.

The government are doing a great job of setting up false dichotomies.

We can either look after the homeless or we can look after the refugees.

And people believe them. 🤦🏼‍♀️

ronib

Volver 3 bottom line is that birth control is legal in Uk - no person is made to give birth to more babies than they want? Same should apply to nations. Who is in control of any geographical space?

ronib, that makes no sense at all. What do you mean?

Germanshepherdsmum

Is it not natural for us to want to look after ‘our own’ first? Those living on the streets or families in one-room B&B accommodation, having to be out between breakfast and dinner no matter what the weather or their state of health, for example?

Don't you think that's our fault (at least some of us) who voted in this dreadful govt and their appalling policies.

Volver 3 bottom line is that birth control is legal in Uk - no person is made to give birth to more babies than they want? Same should apply to nations. Who is in control of any geographical space?

I should have added that large numbers have emigrated which should be set off against the numbers of immigrants.

maddyone

Nice to see you back volver, I missed you. Nothing like a heated debate as the lovely Mrs Merkel said ( not the German one, the British sadly late Caroline Aherne.)

Anyway, there are legal routes for immigration into Britain. We know that because half a million people did immigrate into Britain just last year, and over the last few years over seven million people have legally immigrated into Britain. So why are some people, a much smaller number of people, but primarily men, coming over in dinghies?

I’m going out shortly for brunch with the family to celebrate my husband’s birthday and so will be back later to see what anyone says about this.

Those legal routes are for students and for agricultural workers who have to get permission and permits - usually for 6 months. Also for other people but not the majority of refugees who come by unofficial routes.

maddyone

Nice to see you back volver, I missed you. Nothing like a heated debate as the lovely Mrs Merkel said ( not the German one, the British sadly late Caroline Aherne.)

Anyway, there are legal routes for immigration into Britain. We know that because half a million people did immigrate into Britain just last year, and over the last few years over seven million people have legally immigrated into Britain. So why are some people, a much smaller number of people, but primarily men, coming over in dinghies?

I’m going out shortly for brunch with the family to celebrate my husband’s birthday and so will be back later to see what anyone says about this.

Thank you maddyone.

Thought it best to keep a low profile for a couple of weeks.

These legal routes.

What is the legal route for a Sudanese medic who has worked in the NHS for years, all through the pandemic, and couldn't make it to the evacuation flights because of the snipers?

Because government ministers say there isn't one.

ronib

If we have about 700k to one million migrants annually, it might explain why this country is struggling to house and process claims. It’s not ‘anti migrants’ to worry about the practical implications of migration policy. Figures will be out later this month.

But we don't. Didn't you read my earlier post quoting figures? And not just my posts. And my figures, as always, are taken from official sources.

Why is everyone blaming immigrants for the problems with housing, doctors etc. There are several reasons for the problems and not related to immigrants:

1. When I was young we lived in a 3 bed house - 2 adults and 4 children. One bathroom plus a cloakroom. Nowadays people want a bedroom for each child, plus a spare, if possible. There's no reason why they shouldn't aspire to that but it means that mostly larger houses are being built.

2. Older people don't always want to downsize. If they did it would free up larger houses for those who need the space. This would have a knock on effect of making smaller houses available.

3. The developers are also to blame. They are sitting on land banks waiting for the price up. Planners often insist that social housing form part of a development but the developers don't follow the rules. Please don't say that councils should take recourse to the law. They can't afford. They usually have a budget for legal fees and cannot compete with those incurred by the developers.

4. Maybe if more houses were built it would have an effect on house prices in general and people don't want to see the value of their house coming down.

5. Lastly and most importantly - the govt who have done little to ensure that enough new housing is built. Maybe legislation enacted to ensure that brownfield sites are used up first?

I would expect it to increase if the ‘bleeding heart’ Lib Dems have a hand in it.

10:34Dinahmo
Why not just say immigration will increase tenfold or twenty fold under Labour? What proof to you have that it will quadruple?

No proof just a gut feeling

Is it not natural for us to want to look after ‘our own’ first? Those living on the streets or families in one-room B&B accommodation, having to be out between breakfast and dinner no matter what the weather or their state of health, for example?

Nice to see you back volver, I missed you. Nothing like a heated debate as the lovely Mrs Merkel said ( not the German one, the British sadly late Caroline Aherne.)

Anyway, there are legal routes for immigration into Britain. We know that because half a million people did immigrate into Britain just last year, and over the last few years over seven million people have legally immigrated into Britain. So why are some people, a much smaller number of people, but primarily men, coming over in dinghies?

I’m going out shortly for brunch with the family to celebrate my husband’s birthday and so will be back later to see what anyone says about this.

ronib

If we have about 700k to one million migrants annually, it might explain why this country is struggling to house and process claims. It’s not ‘anti migrants’ to worry about the practical implications of migration policy. Figures will be out later this month.

Well, it would explain that if you are inclined to believe what Suella and her acolytes tell you. In the real world, however...

I've become aware how literal people are. That there are only so many houses and they should go to the "deserving" British citizens. There's still a vestige of the kind of thinking that said, they're coming over here, taking our jobs, marrying our women...

Nicenanny3

2volver3
I want to stop the boats. We could shoot people when they land. That would stop them. But what we do has to be legal and moral, which the Rwanda plan isn't.

The Rwanda plan is a deterrent if you pay people smugglers thousands of pounds and arrive illegally on a dinghy you will be sent to Rwanda

what is an alternative plan then, there isn't one in my opinion that will work, all the things Labour/Lib Dems/Greens, you suggest won't work

*If Labour/Lib Dems get in you might think we have problems now and yes I think we have problems but immigration both legal and illegal will quadruple under Labour*

Why not just say immigration will increase tenfold or twenty fold under Labour? What proof to you have that it will quadruple?

Indeed.

If we have about 700k to one million migrants annually, it might explain why this country is struggling to house and process claims. It’s not ‘anti migrants’ to worry about the practical implications of migration policy. Figures will be out later this month.

I wish I could wave a magic wand and change the anti immigrants into citizens of a foreign country devastated by war, or where they would be persecuted for their religious beliefs, or their sexuality, and where the 'normal routes' of applying for visas are non existent...

Or even just plant in them some understanding of the international law and conventions regarding refugees and asylum seekers... and how the tories have been engineering the current situation over the past few years...