Prince Harry has lost his bid in court

Excellent post Monica at 15.16

Glorrianny George is in direct line to the throne. He’ll be King one day. That’s why he gets, and will continue to get for his whole life, police protection. Charlotte and Louis get protection because they are the children of the next King. They will probably not get full time protection when they’re adults, unless they’re engaged in official royal duties.

tickingbird

Do Peter and Zara Phillips get armed security? I don’t believe they do. The King’s grandchildren are being brought up in the US and are, to all intents and purposes. American. Why should they be provided protection at our expense?

As for Diana’s protection being withdrawn that’s a fallacy. She renounced it as she felt they were spying on her. It’s well documented that the British security she did have that night, Trevor Rees, urged her to stay put, but he was overruled and we know the result. I’ve heard it said many times that if she still had the recommended protection offered she would still be alive.

Diana was offered royal protection officers but refused because she was shown forged information by Martin Bashir that the RF wanted her dead. This was two years after the divorce and a very generous settlement had been finalised.

Bashir played on her vulnerability and gullibility. Not the first potential interviewee that he used forged documents to obtain sought after interviews with apparently.

The props guy, who followed Bashir’s instructions to provide the forged documents, was sacked yet Bashir was put on gardening leave. The evidence and proof was discovered by Diana’s brother Charles Spencer.

Harry has endangered himself by disclosing his part in killing Afghans and the role he played in the war. The Afghans dispute that he killed soldiers but claim it was a group of women and children. It’s taboo in military circles to mention your kill count.

He also made derogatory comments about his brother comparing their level of baldness, that his older brother was given an extra sausage and had a larger bedroom with a nicer view.

He also gave explicit directions to the whereabouts of the royals private quarters within the palace, which would be a gift to any terrorist or wannabe assassins.

He claims to be happy in the USA so much better for him to stay put and get on with the life he chose.

The IPP he hoped for means that his security would be at the expense of the majority of countries in the world. It is only given normally to Heads of State whether Presidents or senior working royals on official visits.

CanadianGran I’ll have a go at answering your questions.
Harry is free to hire private security in the UK but that security may not carry guns. That’s because no one in the UK is allowed to carry a gun unless for a specific and licensed purpose. There cannot be people wandering around British cities carrying guns, whoever they are protecting, because it’s against the law.
People cannot apply for a permit to carry a gun in order to protect anyone. The only people who can carry guns for the purposes of protection are the specially trained officers of the law, meaning the police. Although we have other police who are gun trained and can use guns for certain situations, the police who protect the royals are a special unit, fully trained in all protective methods, including fire arms. They also protect our Prime Minister and many members of the Cabinet (government.) They also protect all exPrime Ministers, and visiting Heads of State, and other royal families when visiting the UK and so on.
These highly trained officers are not available for hire. They work for the state only, protecting those individuals that are deemed to be of sufficiently high risk that protection is required. This does not include all members of the royal family, only those engaged in official duties, and the monarch and his/ her spouse, and then the immediate heir to the throne and his/ her family.
I hope that helps you to understand.

V3ra

Andrew and Harry as children grew up as next in line after Charles and William.
Maybe they found it harder than Edward and Anne to relinquish that status as each heir had their own family and A and H were consequently lower down the line of inheritance?

Well you could argue that Princess Anne also grew up as 2nd in line as she was around 10 before she was displaced by her baby brother Andrew.

In addition Princess Anne suffered an armed attack and and attempted kidnapping in 1974 where 4 people, her Royal Protection Officer, chauffeur, another police officer and (ironically) a tabloid journalist who tried to help her were all shot and injured. So you would think that she would be the one demanding security.

H&M would still be part of the RF if only the Palace had allowed the half in, half out lifestyle they wanted.

Sadly for them, this wasn’t the case. It would have suited to pick and choose the jobs they fancied, i.e. Ascot, Trooping The Colour, the occasional garden party and Westminster Abbey service. They could have lived a comfortable and relatively private life at Frogmore.

Unfortunately for them, their plan misfired, the Palace didn’t roll over and acquiesce to their demands, hence all the up sticks move abroad.

Issues like security had never been thought through by either of them, it was assumed that type of thing would just carry on.

Now they are reaping the consequences of their actions.

Issues like security had never been thought through by either of them, it was assumed that type of thing would just carry on.

Now they are reaping the consequences of their actions.

Maybe that is due to irascibilty in several members of the RF who were involved at the time, and no one sat down calmy to explain to Harry. On the other hand, maybe Harry didn't want to discuss, and slammed the door and left. I don't know but it seems strange.

^Issues like security had never been thought through by either of them, it was assumed that type of thing would just carry on.
Now they are reaping the consequences of their actions.^

In Harry's own words during the Oprah interview, he was not only shocked and surprised that his security wouldn't continue when he lived in a different country, but also that his father wouldn't continue to bankroll him.

They clearly hadn't thought any of that through at all!

It's hard to understand how anyone could make such a drastic and life changing decision without first thinking of the impact that decision would have on themselves.

My opinion only: I think Meghan persuaded a not reluctant Prince Harry, that they could have a wonderful life in America, they could make millions, and they could be free from the constraints of royal life, and they could be much more famous and revered in America where there are no other royals (they got rid of the royals in 1783) and therefore no one to bow or curtsy to. Maybe I’m wrong but that’s what I think.
Meghan, not being royal herself, didn’t think through all the implications, and Harry, having enjoyed these privileges all his life, didn’t give it a thought. And they thought they could pop back and to into the UK and attend all the royal events that appealed to them. However they forgot that being royal brings immense privileges and wealth, but it also brings work and duty.

That’s right maddyone

The duty part of the RF family escaped them. The pair of them thought they’d keep their life of privilege without doing the hard bit.

However they forgot that being royal brings immense privileges and wealth, but it also brings work and duty

Perhaps Harry had watched what his Uncle Andrew got up to (until an American woman called him out) and thought he and Meghan would be treated the same and allowed to swan round the world being royal when they felt like it.

..... what his Uncle Andrew has been accused of getting up too; nothing was proven either way.

Maybe Harry should have paid closer attention to his aunt, Princess Anne.

i do not think Meghan Markle, as she was, had a clue what she was letting herself into, and didn't do anything to find out. I think her idea of being a princess seems to have been based on photographs at ceremonies and watching Disney films and she thought it was all wafting around in beautiful dresses in front of adoring crowds and returning home to a palace with lots of servants.

I think when she arrived in the UK and discovered what reality was she suffered a severe case of culture shock, that started when she discovered that Prince Harry lived in a small 2 bedroomed cottage and did his own cooking, not a palatial house or appartment surrounded by lackeys.

She also did not realise the enormous gulf between our two cultures. I also think that Prince Harry did not discuss with her what life would be like as a member of the Royal family, too afraid that if she realised too soon, she would be off like his previous girlfriends. This is why he threw a hissy fit when Prince William suggested that he slow things down and let Meghan get accustomed to what the job entailed before taking the relationship to the next stage.

But then I am with maddyone. MM immediate reaction to the shock of the real was to race back to the states where she was comfortable and knew the rules and similarly Prince Harry didn't think through what leaving the working Royal Family and scampering off to the states would entail for hm.

Both of them seem to make irrevocable decisions in the immediate heat of the moment, without research or consideration and then get upset when everything doesn't go as they imagined it would and people do not immediately fall in with their wishes.

M0nica, that sounds a pretty likely state of affairs, from what we’ve watched happening.

Your last paragraph MOnica shows why Meghan would make a scarily bad politician.

This is what happens when children are spoiled and indulged. Adulthood comes with a shock when they realise that they can't always get their own way. I wish more parents realised the damage they are causing.

Smileless2012

..... what his Uncle Andrew has been accused of getting up too; nothing was proven either way.

I just meant things like associating with paedophiles and people traffickers, something everyone knows Andrew was doing, whilst being Royal and having full police protection. And which he would probably still be doing if an American woman hadn't challenged him.

Did he have full police protection or was that only provided when he was carrying out duties?

Smileless2012

Did he have full police protection or was that only provided when he was carrying out duties?

His police protection arrangements can't be revealed to the public apparently it is a security risk!
www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/police-wont-say-prince-andrews-21261789

Really!!!!! I googled about PA, couldn't find anything about him but there was information about Princess Ann and others only having police protection when carrying out official duties.

I believe Andrew pays for his own security, but it won’t be allowed to carry arms.
I think the security/royals situation was changed a few years ago, when there was some sort of outcry about what our royals cost us. Most people in the royal family who enjoyed security from the police found that their situation changed to the current situation. So only those royals engaged in royal duties became eligible for paid for state security, along with the monarch and spouse, and other direct heirs to the throne, so at that time Charles and Diana and their children received security. Now of course the direct heirs to the throne are William and George, and so William’s entire family receive this security.
At this time all other royals lost their state security including Princesses Beatrice and Eugenie. I remember that Andrew was extremely miffed about it and so he paid for security for his girls himself. I don’t think they have security now though.

M0nica

i do not think Meghan Markle, as she was, had a clue what she was letting herself into, and didn't do anything to find out. I think her idea of being a princess seems to have been based on photographs at ceremonies and watching Disney films and she thought it was all wafting around in beautiful dresses in front of adoring crowds and returning home to a palace with lots of servants.

I think when she arrived in the UK and discovered what reality was she suffered a severe case of culture shock, that started when she discovered that Prince Harry lived in a small 2 bedroomed cottage and did his own cooking, not a palatial house or appartment surrounded by lackeys.

She also did not realise the enormous gulf between our two cultures. I also think that Prince Harry did not discuss with her what life would be like as a member of the Royal family, too afraid that if she realised too soon, she would be off like his previous girlfriends. This is why he threw a hissy fit when Prince William suggested that he slow things down and let Meghan get accustomed to what the job entailed before taking the relationship to the next stage.

But then I am with maddyone. MM immediate reaction to the shock of the real was to race back to the states where she was comfortable and knew the rules and similarly Prince Harry didn't think through what leaving the working Royal Family and scampering off to the states would entail for hm.

Both of them seem to make irrevocable decisions in the immediate heat of the moment, without research or consideration and then get upset when everything doesn't go as they imagined it would and people do not immediately fall in with their wishes.

I think that these days the RF need to consider whether there needs to be a compulsory training period for anyone planning to be a working Royal so that they can decide whether the lifestyle will suit them.

I believe they do this in Sweden where future working Royals must attend Royal school for 6-18 months. It is a mixture of studies and mentoring that covers things like: workings and organisation of the Royal Household, Swedish History - military ceremonial and cultural roles, etiquette and diplomacy, foreign languages, University courses in political science, government and politics, role of parliament and government, Public Administration at state and local level,

It means that the Swedish Royal family has managed to incorporate spouses from distinctly non Royal backgrounds, Prince Daniel (former personal trainer and gym owner) took 18 months as he married to the heir, - Princess Sofia's (former model and Love Island contestant) took 6-8 months. Chris O'Neill refused and has never been a working royal and has his own Finance business. He and Princess Madeleine live quietly as non-working royals in a gated community in Florida. She does the odd charity event, usually for the Queen of Sweden's childhood foundation and they appear at big Royal events. In fact Princess Madeleine and her husband live the kind of life Harry and Meghan said they wanted but instead pursued Hollywood fame

I think that's a good idea Cold but what would happen if someone refused compulsory training? I doubt Meghan would have been willing.

Fergie, Diana, Megan, No. Sophie, Kate, Yes.