Cancel Culture or Free Speech

Nope it isnt. There is no 'right' in this country for men to be in female spaces

Doodledog

Yes, the leader was 'tired of having to explain'. That, along with 'educate yourself' is a typical response from someone with no coherent argument. I could understand that if the reporter stuck a microphone in front of someone coming out of the pub, but outside the Oxford Union? It's a terrible indictment of both the Union itself and the state of 'democracy' that we find ourselves living in if someone with that level of privilege is unable to express their feelings better than that.

GagaJo, how do we know what 'the new normal' will be? There is already a backlash against the authoritarianism that has got us to this point. I would also love there to be no censorship, no fighting and no suppression of alternative views, and with luck we will get there - but not as long as people like these protestors are allowed to silence anyone who expresses an alternative view to their own.

I didn't say what the 'new normal' will be. You know my opinion on that. But that isn't what I'm pushing her. My point was that it would just be great to skip this stage and get to whatever the acceptance point is.

*her? here

Hithere

30 years ago, the resistance to accept that gay people had the same rights as straight people was very much present

For example, marriage

Now, it is cis vs trans war.

Gender critical don't like any comparisons. Gay rights? Nope. Gay marriage? Nope. Intersex comparisons? Nope. Race hate? Nope.

I agree with you however. But the GC shouters on here won't.

I am not shouting. You are bring incredibly rude though.

I'm not sure what else to call it Galaxy. GC GN members hound those that disagree with them off threads. Personal insults. Demands for answers to questions.

It is never a respectful discussion.

Personal insults are against guidelines. Please report them. Asking for answers to questions is not against guidelines. I am afraid that I want GN to set the guidelines rather than random individuals.
I reported the personal insults that were directed against me the other day, by someone who is the opposite of gender critical, it was deleted.

Interesting programme Gender Wars on Channel 4.

I am wondering how would I feel if someone was proposing that I couldn't exist. I don't think I would want it debated.

I didn't say what the 'new normal' will be. You know my opinion on that. But that isn't what I'm pushing her. My point was that it would just be great to skip this stage and get to whatever the acceptance point is.
In that case we are agreed, although clearly not on what we hope the ‘new normal’ will be.

And no - asking questions is not ‘hounding’. It is how debate works. When did ‘debate’ come to mean refusing to engage with people who disagree, and asking the authorities to cancel them?

Trans people should not have their existence debated

Although I think it was a talk, not a debate and in order to debate it trans people were forced to do so "outside"

Talk... More lecture actually

Do you think saying that female spaces are not for men is saying that trans people shouldnt exist.

Honestly this is not going to work people are actually seeing and hearing this now. No debate was over about 5 years ago.

Nobody is saying that trans people don't exist. Just that they are not the sex they think they are.

I was thinking that also about the shape of the pelvis being a clue to the sex of a skeleton.

From what I've read Stock seems to be now championing herself as a polite moderate in this debate but her past history says sadly otherwise and she has come across as intolerant and hateful, which led to this

Doodledog

*I didn't say what the 'new normal' will be. You know my opinion on that. But that isn't what I'm pushing her. My point was that it would just be great to skip this stage and get to whatever the acceptance point is.*
In that case we are agreed, although clearly not on what we hope the ‘new normal’ will be.

And no - asking questions is not ‘hounding’. It is how debate works. When did ‘debate’ come to mean refusing to engage with people who disagree, and asking the authorities to cancel them?

DD, you have seen (not indulged in admittedly) demands for answers. Rudely phrased demands which turn into insults. Let's not be disingenuous. It's one of the reasons I usually refuse to engage in these threads. I probably should follow my own better judgement and not get involved in this one.

Gagajo I have asked a couple of questions already on this thread. Please report them if you think that breaks guidelines.

I'm not sure I have (and I'm absolutely straightforward in my posts - I don't do disingenuous). I know that I have asked numerous questions and been ignored though, and when I press for answers I am told I am 'hounding'.

I agree that the threads get unpleasant at times, but I don't know how debate can happen unless people both ask and answer questions.

Kathleen Stock is a very polite moderate. Of course many hate her for being educated and articulate, especially the male TRAs and their handmaidens.
Can someone remind me who championed the phrase "no debate" ? Because now it seems that certain sections are screaming "that's not a debate!" Maybe karma exists
Of course trans identifying people exist who on earth says otherwise? Those of us that don't agree you can change sex don't deny there are people who think you can. I don't agree that the earth is flat, but I know there is a small section of people who most assuredly think it is. They exist.
Why people always drag gay rights into this bemuses me. Homosexuals wanted equal rights to heterosexuals, perfectly right and should never have taken so long to achieve. Not one gay right demand impacted heterosexuals, and especially women. Transgender "rights" want the right for bodies with penises aka males/men to have the right to access female only spaces, and to be able to cheat at sports and take scholarships and awards designated for women. If anyone can link to where a transman has taken a male award or athletic gold medal please do. Until then I'll remain with the view that trans activism is a male orientated thing.

"Nobody is saying that trans people don't exist. Just that they are not the sex they think they are."

Who are we to say who they are? We dont live their lives, we dont experience the challenges they go through everydah

Why cant they decide who they are?

Lets not fall on trap of deciding for others without their feedback

That is what the republicans are doing to women in the US - do you also agree women dont have the right to decide for themselves?

We didnt decide. If I chant transwomen are women it will have no impact on the fact that you cant change sex.
The debate is quite different here to in the states. Many of the most well known gender critical feminists are left wing lesbians.

Hithere

"Nobody is saying that trans people don't exist. Just that they are not the sex they think they are."

Who are we to say who they are? We dont live their lives, we dont experience the challenges they go through everydah

Why cant they decide who they are?

Lets not fall on trap of deciding for others without their feedback

That is what the republicans are doing to women in the US - do you also agree women dont have the right to decide for themselves?

That is what the republicans are doing to women in the US - do you also agree women dont have the right to decide for themselves? Thank goodness most of us on GN live in the UK. Women prefer single sex spaces for a limited number of places......where they are in a state of undress or vulnerable to male aggression. Trans people can think they're anything they like but nobody on this earth has ever changed biological sex. Live your life how you wish, but show basic decency and respect single sex spaces. It's really not that hard unless you're a massive egotist.

What is happening in the US is awful Hithere and none of us are safe until we all are

Great photo of Kathleen Stock on her way to the Oxford Union. Definitely has a touch of the “Reservoir Dogs” about it.
twitter.com/mforstater/status/1663605176727486465?s=61&t=qph6ruaz5B5GPjDn7jnZBw

This is two minutes of her talking to Nick FerrariLBC earlier today. How anyone can disagree with any of what she says is totally beyond my ken. #I❤️DocStock
twitter.com/lbc/status/1663482750463094784?s=61&t=qph6ruaz5B5GPjDn7jnZBw

A small example of the people who don’t support what KS says.
twitter.com/stelladoves/status/1663612183970807808?s=61&t=qph6ruaz5B5GPjDn7jnZBw

Hithere

Hate speech is subjective

I can only dream to fast forward 20 years so society can adapt to changes and adopt the new definition of human rights

Hate speech is subjective

But there has to be a legal definition. Otherwise anyone can accuse anyone else of indulging in it, on a whim.

Surely hate speech is when you advocate / incite violence or attempt to deny someone / a demographic, their human rights?