Traditional Conservative values: are they reflected in the current government?

Criticism of Starmer was on a thread discussing the Conservative Party

Thanks Whitewave.
I think there also comes a stage in any government where they need to spend some time in opposition. The Tories are without a doubt at that stage.
I also wonder how much nostalgia impacts our view, I have always as a Labour voter had quite a lot of respect for Ken Clarke, and some others, but is that because I am currently not living through their government so to speak.

Ww2 truthfully not too sure what values the current government hold as it’s a much less “in your face” administration.
I don’t think the Boris Johnson management style paid much attention to details.
I am quietly impressed with Kemi Badenoch.

Mrs Thatcher's Government made life worse for a lot of people.
The current Government also makes life worse for a lot of people.
Seems just the same to me.

Galaxy

Thanks Whitewave.
I think there also comes a stage in any government where they need to spend some time in opposition. The Tories are without a doubt at that stage.
I also wonder how much nostalgia impacts our view, I have always as a Labour voter had quite a lot of respect for Ken Clarke, and some others, but is that because I am currently not living through their government so to speak.

I agree with you Galaxy, in that I think the likes of Ken Clarke were what you might call compassionate conservatives, who cared enough about the ordinary working man to improve his/her lot as well as that of the more privileged - and to say so loudly so people heard them and positions were changed.
I believe there still are Tory MPs who share those values, but the party has become so polarised now that they are cowed by the whips into keeping their point of view to themselves.

PS Thank you Whitewavemark2, I hope this thread can be a serious discussion not a hijacked nonsense.

What are you counting as "traditional Conservative Values", please, wwmk2? A list would be useful. Not a massive list, just a few really conservative ideas.

Well, I think that these values were epitomised in such people as

Dominic Grieve
David Gauke
Philip Hammond
Alistair Burt
Caroline Noakes
Ken Clarke

And many more.

For me they represent the type of Tory which although I disagreed on much, I respected them.

They would no more have contemplated breaking the rule of law than fly through the air.
They stood for honour and dignity on the whole - of course there is always the exception, but at least they tried to represent a certain standard of behaviour in public life.
The represented a type of paternalism that understood the responsibility of caring for those less fortunate, and this was done through ensuring an adequate education system, adequate health funding, adequate LA funding etc.

In my opinion, so much of this has been lost with the current government, who the devil take the hindmost attitude has impoverished our society, bringing division and increased poverty on a massive scale, not just to individuals but to the valuable institutions like the NHS.

Whitewavemark2

Well, I think that these values were epitomised in such people as

Dominic Grieve
David Gauke
Philip Hammond
Alistair Burt
Caroline Noakes
Ken Clarke

And many more.

For me they represent the type of Tory which although I disagreed on much, I respected them.

They would no more have contemplated breaking the rule of law than fly through the air.
They stood for honour and dignity on the whole - of course there is always the exception, but at least they tried to represent a certain standard of behaviour in public life.
The represented a type of paternalism that understood the responsibility of caring for those less fortunate, and this was done through ensuring an adequate education system, adequate health funding, adequate LA funding etc.

In my opinion, so much of this has been lost with the current government, who the devil take the hindmost attitude has impoverished our society, bringing division and increased poverty on a massive scale, not just to individuals but to the valuable institutions like the NHS.

Oh come on there has never been anything adequate about any of those services under the Tories. They have always run them down. They are all part of what they call the Nanny state and Conservatives want a small state with low taxes so how can they provide adequate services?

The Tory party members out in the constituencies adopt the candidates and elect the leader, the ones I know are pretty right wing and would put Johnson back in No10 if they could.

It’s the floating voters that elect a government, they vote for whatever seems to benefit them personally, lower taxes, free childcare, higher pensions, last time it was Brexit.

Glorianny

Whitewavemark2

Well, I think that these values were epitomised in such people as

Dominic Grieve
David Gauke
Philip Hammond
Alistair Burt
Caroline Noakes
Ken Clarke

And many more.

For me they represent the type of Tory which although I disagreed on much, I respected them.

They would no more have contemplated breaking the rule of law than fly through the air.
They stood for honour and dignity on the whole - of course there is always the exception, but at least they tried to represent a certain standard of behaviour in public life.
The represented a type of paternalism that understood the responsibility of caring for those less fortunate, and this was done through ensuring an adequate education system, adequate health funding, adequate LA funding etc.

In my opinion, so much of this has been lost with the current government, who the devil take the hindmost attitude has impoverished our society, bringing division and increased poverty on a massive scale, not just to individuals but to the valuable institutions like the NHS.

Oh come on there has never been anything adequate about any of those services under the Tories. They have always run them down. They are all part of what they call the Nanny state and Conservatives want a small state with low taxes so how can they provide adequate services?

There’s a difference between running services down and running them into the ground though, isn’t there? What’s different now is that the voice of reason which prevented previous Tory governments going as far to the right as the last few years has been effectively silenced. It now seems to be a battle between the right and the far right, rather than between the centre and the right.

They would no more have contemplated breaking the rule of law than fly through the air.

That is the very first thing I associate with the current tory party under the past three leaders. Their willingness to flout both international law and domestic law as it applies to governance. Such things as the unlawful prorogation of Parliament and disregard for procurement procedures during the covid crisis (VIP lanes).

They are also willing to manipulate Parliamentary processes to achieve their ends, like giving minimal time for scrutiny and debate of proposed legislation.

They stood for honour and dignity on the whole - of course there is always the exception, but at least they tried to represent a certain standard of behaviour in public life.

Conspicuously absent from our present government and tory MPs.

They represented a type of paternalism that understood the responsibility of caring for those less fortunate, and this was done through ensuring an adequate education system, adequate health funding, adequate LA funding etc.

I'm not so sure about this one! It certainly didn't apply post 2010 when Osborne was determinedly cutting funds to every public service that he possibly could. I don't think it was done wholly for economic reasons; it was a fine opportunity for implementing the tory 'small state' ideology.

Even when you think of the Thatcher years with unemployment soaring to 3 million and heavy industry being destroyed it does make one wonder how much regard the tories really had to the wellbeing of UK citizens in general.

I always find it hard to reconcile the undoubted concerns of some tory politicians about people's lives with the results of the actions of their governments. There sometimes seems to be a total disconnect...

What I don't recall about former Conservative governments is the naked populism which characterises so much of the past seven years.

You are wrong. For some time now selection of candidates has been in the hands of central office not the ordinary party member in the constituencies. This is one thing that needs to change. Unfortunately a recent conference whose main aim was exactly that - to give members more say in who represents them on the ballot paper was dubbed extreme right wing by the press and posters on here. If we want better politics in this country the first thing we have to do is stop demonising ordinary individuals for their views. If more people thought they could speak their mind on forums such as this without fear of being dismissed as extremists we might, just might, feel empowered to put forward decent individuals as MPs. And those decent individuals might come forward to stand.

Above was reply to Katie59

Unfortunately a recent conference whose main aim was exactly that - to give members more say in who represents them on the ballot paper was dubbed extreme right wing by the press and posters on here.

Which conference was that, GrannyRose15?

I don't quite understand how opposing voices on forums prevents people putting forward decent individuals as MPs.

And when one recalls that it was tory party members who voted for Liz Truss to become PM one does wonder about their judgement...

Glorianny

Whitewavemark2

Well, I think that these values were epitomised in such people as

Dominic Grieve
David Gauke
Philip Hammond
Alistair Burt
Caroline Noakes
Ken Clarke

And many more.

For me they represent the type of Tory which although I disagreed on much, I respected them.

They would no more have contemplated breaking the rule of law than fly through the air.
They stood for honour and dignity on the whole - of course there is always the exception, but at least they tried to represent a certain standard of behaviour in public life.
The represented a type of paternalism that understood the responsibility of caring for those less fortunate, and this was done through ensuring an adequate education system, adequate health funding, adequate LA funding etc.

In my opinion, so much of this has been lost with the current government, who the devil take the hindmost attitude has impoverished our society, bringing division and increased poverty on a massive scale, not just to individuals but to the valuable institutions like the NHS.

Oh come on there has never been anything adequate about any of those services under the Tories. They have always run them down. They are all part of what they call the Nanny state and Conservatives want a small state with low taxes so how can they provide adequate services?

“Adequate services” as far as the Tory party deem fit, (one nation paternalistic Toryism) which I have never thought adequate and why I don’t vote Tory.

maizie I don’t think thatcher was ever a one nation Tory - that is the type of traditional conservative I think has been eroded and speedily eroded of late.

We now have a type of conservative populism never seen in the U.K. which makes bad policy on soundbites

All of the political parties have had their share of scoundrels and miscreants. Some of the scandals were personal some of them financial, some political. But there have always been naughty MPs. Here's the scandals en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_scandals_in_the_United_Kingdom#2011
Of course some MP's are good, but they have never all been good.

The Tory government in its present form, believes largely in a capitalist system that is laissez faire economics and a small state.

I would argue that this form of capitalism and democracy are mutually exclusive.

That is exactly the sort of patronising comment I am referring to.

This is thought provoking, describing the loss of popular support and the disconnect between the party leadership and members and the voters.
ukandeu.ac.uk/can-the-conservative-party-be-reinvigorated/

Only if you have an electorate that doesn’t agree with capitalism.

GrannyRose15

That is exactly the sort of patronising comment I am referring to.

That was addressed to Maisie D. I obviously do not have enough practice writing on these threads as I need to get it right. Could this be because I am averse to being shot down in flames every time I raise my head above the parapet.

Can someone please explain to me why populism is bad but we still want politicians to be in touch with the views of the people. Don’t the two go together?