Has the penny dropped (as fast as the Pound)- Brexit is a disaster

Farmor15

Aveline's table posted at 18.01 only shows half the EU countries which had higher inflation rates than UK in April. The other half including countries like France and Germany had lower inflation, so not sure what the point is.

Neither am I. You you would have to say why each of those countries was higher or lower. Inflation rates vary for many reasons but that tells you nothing about how brexit affected us "in comparison".

Maybe70

I’m not saying you can’t be angry or upset about it. Fill your boots if that’s what you want to do, pointless as it is. It’s about perspective, keeping it in proportion. The constant ‘Brexit is a disaster’ narrative is totally out of all proportion.

Somewhat lacking in compassion Maybee. How can you say ‘it’s not a competition’ on reading something like that?

Toscalily

I totally agree. I often wonder how some posters on here would respond if they were really up against it.

It’s not a competition….you could say something bad that happens isn’t as bad as being involved in a war but it doesn’t mean that one can’t be angry or upset about it.

Maybe70

Actually, that’s exactly what those made of ‘sterner stuff’ did do, just got on with it, no moaning, whinging and bleating because they recognised it for the fruitless activity it is and saved their energy for something more productive.

My father was captured on the desert in North Africa in June 1942. Held by the Italians initially, when they capitulated he was handed back to the Germans and spent the remainder of the war as one of the 600 British POWs held in Auschwitz. Always hungry, sometimes literally starving, and forced to work in the I G Farben factory with a rifle shoved against his ribs and hit with the butt of it at any sign of non compliance. Force marched out of the camp in January 1945, hundreds of miles across Czechoslovakia in one of the worst winters on record with temperatures regularly minus 30 degrees without food, shelter or adequate clothing. He saw comrades shot at the side of the road because they couldn’t go any further and was threatened with the same fate himself for trying to intervene.

My father lived to be 92 and never in the whole of my life did I hear one word of bitterness or complaint, about his treatment and experiences, never, ever. Nor actually from my mother who was left for months not knowing whether or not she even had husband any more, juggling childcare with working long hours on war work to keep a roof over their heads and food on the table.

If either were ever asked about it they would say quite simply, that it had been tough but they got through it, that it had happened and you couldn’t change the past and that it was what was ahead that mattered, not what you had left behind. No woe is me, no how hard done by I’ve been, just knuckling down and getting on with it.

Brexit’s a bit of a walk in the park in comparison isn’t it?

Well, the things that Fleurpepper’pontificates’ about are usually the same things that I pontificate about but I don’t seem to be criticised in the same way. It seems that I have the right to criticise what’s happening here but she isn’t. Why is that?

MayBee70
Not so. As you know we have many members who aren’t British born or have moved to another country.
I could be wrong but I don’t recall any of them pontificating on what we have got wrong.

But her opinion is disregarded because she lives in another country.

Now, if you want to argue, as you seem to be, that someone who came to the UK as a 2 year old, 75 years ago, and one who came to the UK as a teenager, 53 years ago- both British for over 50 years, is not to be considered legally or 'socially' entitled to an opinion on things seriously affecting the country, our family and friends, and ourselves- then you are demonstrating massive prejudice, and possibly racism. Because racism is not just about 'race' in fact- and in the case of OH, would actually apply as he is very mixed race and arrived in 1948, at the same time as Windrush (but on another ship, from SA).

I think that is the paragraph which claimed racism that is why it is disputed and, as we can't see one another or know who our relatives are unless someone states their ethnicity and that of their family, it is a spurious claim.
We're not discussing race, ethnicity, nationality, posters are trying to point out how Brexit might have affected them, if at all.

Of course you can have an opinion but so can others, too, but whether it is of any value and whether any of us can change anything at all is a moot point.

Perhaps it would be better to ask posters to list the changes they may have experienced, if any, over the last seven years, positives too, not just concentrate on the negatives.

The Tories used illicit online messaging in 2015 to target certain constituencies. They managed to blame the LibDems for everything bad about the coaliton and claimed undeserved credit for all the went well, even for LibDem policies which the Tories had tried to obstruct.

The last eight years of UK politics have been an unmitigated disaster.

Interesting the way some of you tell FP to stop winging after 7 years. Surely you cannot have forgotten how some people started campaigning that we should leave the EEC when we first joined that organisation.

7 years on, peace abounds.

I still think far more likely to keep peace this way, than the other way.
7 years and counting..

* It’s because I don’t want another world war that I supported being in the EU*

And it was because I didnt, that I didnt support it! Well that was a good part of my reason.

Caramme

Race, OP? Now you are accusing posters of racism? IMO that is low and pretty desperate. I can hardly credit that someone could make that accusation on a forum where most of us don’t know and don’t care about our various ethnicities. If you have to resort to accusations of that sort I suggest you stay away from this site for a while and go and look for your sense of perspective instead.

Prejudice on the basis of not being born in the UK, so based on another nationality, is not about 'race' as such. Are you telling me that the prejudice felt and experienced by all the East European workers, during the Brexit campaign, that drove them away in droves, was not a form of 'racism'. Racism is not just about colour. Called it strong prejudice about anyone not born and bred in the UK, if you prefer. Telling anyone they do not have the right to criticise the effects of Brexit, because they are not born and bred British, on British soil, despite being British for over 50 years- is a form of 'racism'. Call it what you wish.

Keep attacking. I have always picked my self up after many difficult life events, always remained strong and positive, and caring for others. But just keep kicking.

We all know that this was the basis for that Brexit vote for so many- kicking foreigners out or shutting them up.

You win.

Germanshepherdsmum

It’s easy for us to say that, MayBee. Our generation didn’t fight in either world war. I remember my Grandad saying many times that the only good German is a dead one, as did many others who fought in both wars. What my Grandad endured was horrific and I understand why he said what he said. We have a luxury denied to his generation and that of our parents - peace. You can’t expect people who have endured unspeakable horrors after volunteering to fight for their country to ‘learn from it’. Did he ever really get over it? No. Being shot right through the head tends to change your personality. His wife was made of stern stuff to cope with it. Surviving fighting on the front line and killing people in a bloody war of attrition is not remotely comparable to getting over Brexit.

Small events lead to big events, that’s why even seemingly minor insignificant historical events can lead to larger ones. The lead up to both world wars deserve as much scrutiny as the wars themselves eg the way that Germany was punished financially after WWI which contributed to the rise of Hitler. You can’t say that an event that has affected. It’s because I don’t want another world war that I supported being in the EU, something that was initially set up to prevent such a terrible thing happening again. And why I was so angry that Brexit threatened peace in Ireland.

Aveline's table posted at 18.01 only shows half the EU countries which had higher inflation rates than UK in April. The other half including countries like France and Germany had lower inflation, so not sure what the point is.

Aveline

This

And?

And it does them and their loved ones no good at all. That way lies estrangement, loneliness and bitterness.

The past has made us all what we are; it’s how we recognise and live with it that matters.

This is true. Some will pick themselves up from life's disappointments, brush themselves down, learn from it and carry on. Others will sit there for years on end, bleating about the unfairness of it all and how badly done to they are. They cannot move on. They cannot see a worthwhile future in their altered circumstances and can only gain solace by regurgitating the same litany of injustices over and over and over again. Sad and irritating in equal measure.

Germanshepherdsmum

It’s easy for us to say that, MayBee. Our generation didn’t fight in either world war. I remember my Grandad saying many times that the only good German is a dead one, as did many others who fought in both wars. What my Grandad endured was horrific and I understand why he said what he said. We have a luxury denied to his generation and that of our parents - peace. You can’t expect people who have endured unspeakable horrors after volunteering to fight for their country to ‘learn from it’. Did he ever really get over it? No. Being shot right through the head tends to change your personality. His wife was made of stern stuff to cope with it. Surviving fighting on the front line and killing people in a bloody war of attrition is not remotely comparable to getting over Brexit.

Indeed.

All men in our family were involved in both World Wars, many died, many suffered non-fatal injuries (shell shock) what people now better understand - PTSD after fatal piloting incidents.

Brexit is not on the same scale at all.

Very true Imogen.

GSM 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

The past has made us all what we are; it’s how we recognise and live with it that matters.

It’s easy for us to say that, MayBee. Our generation didn’t fight in either world war. I remember my Grandad saying many times that the only good German is a dead one, as did many others who fought in both wars. What my Grandad endured was horrific and I understand why he said what he said. We have a luxury denied to his generation and that of our parents - peace. You can’t expect people who have endured unspeakable horrors after volunteering to fight for their country to ‘learn from it’. Did he ever really get over it? No. Being shot right through the head tends to change your personality. His wife was made of stern stuff to cope with it. Surviving fighting on the front line and killing people in a bloody war of attrition is not remotely comparable to getting over Brexit.

This