The Labour Party and Free Speech

Anniebach

Where were the loyal Labour supporters at the 2019 election ?

I can't speak for all of them, but they got my vote.

They will get it again, as there is no alternative (for me) that I could bring myself to vote for. I approve of many Labour policies, but I believe in democracy and women's rights, so I can no longer declare my support overtly enough to be in the LP.

I wish we had an Andy Burnham here, but we don't. I'm not a Corbynista (although I did support some of his policies too, and believe that he got a very bad press in the media).

Blair may be unpopular now, but he did make a huge difference to life in the UK (for the better IMO) and I would be happy for a party to be in power that would do likewise, even if I don't support everything they do (leaving Iraq aside for the purposes of this discussion). That's why I will vote Labour - I believe that Starmer is a decent man, and that he will roll back some of the worst excesses of the Tories - but I'm not going to 'belong to' a group that is operating undemocratically and is sidelining women.

Iam64

Our clp had potential candidates imposed, with the ex momentum candidate (he’d left momentum very recently) not selected. Many officials resigned. I know them well, they’re all still firmly of the belief that Corbyn is the leader they want. The information on the doorstep that people wouldn’t vote Labour because of Corbyn is dismissed as these people being brainwashed by the right wing press.
I was very happy with the 3 candidates we could select from. All live in the constituency, all active in the party, two councillors.
I’ve no worries that Andy Burnham’s position as our mayor is under threat. He’s rock solid, no associations with anti semitism.
I’m still a LP member

Is that supposed to imply that Jamie Driscoll has "associations with anti-semitism" he hasn't. He is pro Palestine which seems to have become something of a no-no for the LP which is odd given the stance now taken by Amnesty.
We are instead having foist upon us one Kim McGuiness, who may be a very nice woman but who has made little determinable progress in the short period she has been Police and Crime Commissioner.
The vote will be split, some LP supporters will go with her, some will give another their vote and some won't bother to vote. It's a guaranteed to lose situation.

Please do say, when was the last far left Labour government?

Sorry if this is off piste, but I do think that the next GE will be quite complicated. If everyone votes for who they actually want, the opposition vote will again be split, and guess who might get in again! Look at how successful tactical voting was in the recent Local Elections. Remember the attitudes of Corbyn and Swinson in 2019? They were each going to win outright, and had no intention of collaborating. The arrogance! We are the ones who have had to live with the consequences.

Can't think of any, Anniebach.

Anniebach

Please do say, when was the last far left Labour government?

Wether he qualifies as “far left” I’m not sure but I’m sure that many regarded Clement Attlee as socialist, so many changes took place when he was PM.
He was a the man of the moment coming out of the horror of WW2 when austerity had become normal and the hope of a better life tomorrow had wide appeal.

78 years ago .

Blair was the only Labour leader to win 3 consecutive general
elections , surely the country doesn’t want far left yet those on the far left criticise Starmer , I so want a Labour government, the country needs a Labour government

The accusations against Ken Loach, a life-long anti-racist are demonstrably false. Here is a detailed breakdown that appeared on the Jewish Voice for Labour website. www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/statement/in-support-of-ken-loach-free-speech-and-democracy/

I will never vote labour they sent my son and my daughter inlaw both to war Iraq and Afghan and they don’t know what a woman is so that’s a no from me and no mention how to stop the boats. If a party can’t say what a woman is then they don’t deserve my vote I’m thinking of a small party and no it won’t be Tory I didn’t like what they did to Boris backstabbed him out. The ppl voted for him not the party. I didn’t vote for him either but he was entertaining to watch. Richard tice seems to talk sense

Castafiore

The accusations against Ken Loach, a life-long anti-racist are demonstrably false. Here is a detailed breakdown that appeared on the Jewish Voice for Labour website. www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/statement/in-support-of-ken-loach-free-speech-and-democracy/

Excellent detailed breakdown from Jewish Voice For Labour. 👌 And interesting comments too all agreeing with JVL If Starmer can get away with this with compliant media what else will he do.

I’m with Doodledog on this. I’m also a lifelong LP member who is disillusioned by the in-fighting and attack on the left of the Party. Mind you, the LP has form on this score. Remember the 80s when everyone had to be on message? Yes, I believe we need to get the Tories out, and yes, politics generally has swung to the right quite considerably. But I do think the current Government are especially incompetent and toxic. I haven’t left the LP yet, just quietly quit, and I will vote for Labour at the next GE but I’m increasingly disappointed by the control freakery and lack of ambition in Labour Party policy. The watering down of key policies on Green New Deal and universal childcare just turn me off them more and more.

That’s one thing I have against the Labour Party here. Dissent is not allowed, they get expelled. The Liberals , our version of the Conservatives, are far more, well, liberal. Traces of the old communism. I predict the Labour Party will get on over there but within a year or two people will realise they are no better and possibly worse than the other mob. Full of great ideas, no substance.

PeterStefanovi2
I’M SO VERY SORRY EVERYONE. WE CAME TOGETHER in our tens of thousands to try & stop the Government using an unprecedented abuse of power to restrict the publics right to protest. Over 55,000 of you supported us. Tonight #labour
@LabourLordsUK
shamelessly ignored the publics outcry & backed the Government in its outrageous & unprecedented abuse of power by ABSTAINING on the fatal motion tabled by
@GreenJennyJones
. I have always supported
@UKLabour
but it’s refusal to join
@LibDemLords
& a small band of brave others across the House in backing tonights fatal motion was a disgrace. #labour has tonight supported the Government in restricting our right to protest. I promise I & many others did all we could to persuade #Labour to join us. Tonight they refused & sided with the Government - allowing it to restrict our right to protest & use an unprecedented abuse of power to get away with it. THIS IS NOT THE END. We shall continue the fight to protect democracy and will do it without #Labour if we must. I know each & every one of you will stand shoulder to shoulder with us

@georgeeaton
Labour ruling out universal childcare and diluting its £28bn green pledge is further proof of what I’ve called “the quiet consensus” between the two main parties. newstatesman.com/quickfire/2023/03/the-quiet-consensus-how-labour-and-the-tories-are-converging

So that's another pledge gone universal child care.

There is nothing fiscally credible by keeping parents out of work by denying them the support they need JC

End of yet another thread

Yes indeed Anniebach. Under our fptp system, choices are limited. In most constituencies it’s Labour - Conservative or Conservative - Lib Dem’s.
The LP may not be pure and perfect but are the left learners seriously saying they’ll let the tories in again.

Iam seems they choose another tory government over a Labour government led by Starmer

Who is being talked about here?

I have left the LP (as in I have resigned membership) but I will vote for them to keep the Tories out. POW1 has said likewise, and without going back through the thread I don't remember anyone saying that they have switched their vote from Labour to Tories.

I am loyal by nature, but I don't follow blindly, and I have reached a point where I feel I have no alternative. I resigned before over the Iraq war, and may rejoin in future. I see nothing wrong with that.

Not you Doodledog you have said you will support Labour at
the next general election

Anniebach

Not you Doodledog you have said you will support Labour at
the next general election

I have, but has anyone said that they are not going to do so as a result of the deselection of the NE Mayor?

Grany has already said she’s voting Green, so it won’t affect her vote.

I am not going to vote for Keir Starmer's party, but I can do so safe in the knowledge that the Tories will not win in my constituency. If there was a danger that the Tories would win then I would hold my nose and vote for Starmer's party.
Do not try to imply that people who would like a fairer society are willing to risk a Tory government because it is just not true.

Ilovecheese

I am not going to vote for Keir Starmer's party, but I can do so safe in the knowledge that the Tories will not win in my constituency. If there was a danger that the Tories would win then I would hold my nose and vote for Starmer's party.
Do not try to imply that people who would like a fairer society are willing to risk a Tory government because it is just not true.

People who would like a fairer society are voting Labour, which by the way is led by Keir Starmer. And, they will get one. It may not be Utopia, the realists amongst us are not expecting that - but it will be fairer.

Let's get one thing straight This thread is about Labour Party and free speech democracy. Labour abstained on a crucial vote on free speech the right to protest backing the government illegal move. Others have mentioned child care pledge abandoned along with watered down Green Deal apparently to do with fiscal rule. Do people not have a right to be disappointed with Labour and question the way they abandon pledges, missions. No one wants a tory government and will vote accordingly Starmer and Labour will win, not exactly sure who I will vote for may be tactical. Don't Reeves and Starmer know past 15 years that austerity does not work.