Meanwhile the earth is burning

Franbern your granddaughter's poem hits the nail right on the head! It is very much how I feel too, and it is THEIR future we are threatening with our lack of concern for the environment. We won't be here to see the catastrophes occurring here, but even more so in the poorer parts of the world where they are not as responsible as we are for damaging the climate. How is it that a thirteen year old can see and express so eloquently what is happening and our wealthy Prime Minister and government cannot?

Franbern I find your granddaughter's poem incredibly touching. And she's encompassed exactly how I feel. My hope is that we can sort out the planet for her and any descendents she may have.
Please thank her for me.

It's a bit alarming that this thread only has 3 pages; and there's one about Weddings of yesterday and today that has 6 pages...

My 13 year old g.daughter cares, very very much about all eco issues. Afer all, it her future she is contemplating,. Does remind me somewhat as to how I felt back in the 1950's about CND and the bomb.

Here is a poem that she wrote - from the heart====

There is no Plan et B

There’s a fire burning inside of me,
It won't go away.
But I keep it inside,
Wait for another day.
People don’t understand it,
But when I try to explain,
They refuse to listen,
No matter what I say.

There’s a fire burning inside of me,
I want to shout and scream.
It makes me so angry,
And things are getting too extreme.
It's easier to think,
That everything is fine.
Than change what you are doing,
Than change your mind.

There’s a fire burning inside of me,
But I can’t let it out.
If I did it would consume me,
There is no way out.
You say you care about the planet,
But then go about your life.
Not changing what you do,
Even though it's killing wildlife.

There’s a fire burning inside of me,
You say it’s just one little thing.
But all of these small things add up.
Until they destroy everything.
I know some very nice people,
Who think everything is fine.
Not realising that what they are doing,
Might make their children die.

There’s a fire burning inside of me,
It's hard to speak out.
When people don’t want to change,
Don’t want to bring themselves to account.
How can you laugh and joke?
When you hear that people are dying.
How can you do nothing?
And say that you’re not lying.

There’s a fire burning in the world,
It’s destroying everything.
And it is our fault,
But still people don’t do anything.

“I cannot agree with posters who feel that discussions about AI should take second place to climate change. Do you not realise that AI is the perfect way to facilitate the rise of new dictators to power, as the frequently wrong or at best narrow-minded opinions that AI is capable of producing are taken as gospel truth by those too lazy or too poorly educated to think for themselves?”

AI is just another computer programme it can be trained to do whatever the originator wants, make no mistake they have to be trained just like humans are, we can be trained to obey orders or to have emotions or to make pure logical decisions.

So the threat from rouge AI is no more than from rouge humans

Louella12

40 odd years ago we were told that The Maldives would disappear into the Indian Ocean

Pleased to say that didn't happen

5 years ago Greta Thunberg forecast great climate catastrophe would occur on this date.

She's deleted her Tweet

When we were in the Maldives we were startled to see a number of islands that were gradually disappearing under the sea. Some now completely submerged at high tide, some with the odd palm tree hanging on but make no mistake, the Maldives are disappearing.

40 odd years ago we were told that The Maldives would disappear into the Indian Ocean

Pleased to say that didn't happen

5 years ago Greta Thunberg forecast great climate catastrophe would occur on this date.

She's deleted her Tweet

Siope many thanks for the link to the Royal Society's website, which is extremely informative.

Whitewavemark2 thank you for your OP, and comments about my last post. I think it's common to get 'climate change fatigue' and feel completely overwhelmed by the subject; but I appreciate your having raised the subject again as we need to be frequently reminded of the importance of the issue.

I wonder what the outcome would be if people put as much energy into researching how they can make a difference as they put into researching which air fryer to buy (I wish there was a tongue-in-cheek emoji!). Interesting that our sons' research similar areas!

About rainforest regeneration, I think this link (World Economic Forum) indicates that it doesn't just 'happen':

www.weforum.org/agenda/2023/01/beyond-
conservation-we-need-to-restore-the-amazon-forests/

And this will educate those interested in energy consumption figures:

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1110483/Energy_Consumption_in_the_UK_2022_10102022.pdf

I think Op you are being to a certain extent at least, unduly pessimistic.

It is not quite true that no-one cares.

The EU is doing a lot to promote green energy, recycling and many businesses are now reducing their carbon emissions, and concerning themselves with sourcing materials that are as "green" as possible.

In Denmark we (private householders, housing associations and businesses ) are required to sort our waste into nine different categories when we throw it into our bins, so that recycling becomes easier and cheaper, and only things that are too worn out or dirty to be reused are being incinerated.

Similar systems are in place in Germany, the Netherlands and Belgium.

Plastic goods for sale new are clearly marked so we can choose ones made of recycled plastic rather than newly produced plastic.

The hole in the ozone layer is closing or has closed faster than anticipated and the war in Ukraine has reduced European countries' dependence on Russian gas and oil to a very large extent. Even more positive in the long term, the same war has accelerated discussions about the advisability of countries being able and willing to produce most of their own food instead of importing it,

Unfortunately, the ice caps are melting , sea levels and temperatures rising, but at long last the misuse of the rain forests is being taken seriously, and a discussion has recently been started as to the need for changing the attitude of the western world away from believing that happiness and success can be measured mainly by our number of possessions.

I cannot agree with posters who feel that discussions about AI should take second place to climate change. Do you not realise that AI is the perfect way to facilitate the rise of new dictators to power, as the frequently wrong or at best narrow-minded opinions that AI is capable of producing are taken as gospel truth by those too lazy or too poorly educated to think for themselves?

Both climate change, AI and the rising poverty all over the world are topics we cannot afford to disregard, or to prioritise one above the others.

vegansrock

Those who point the finger at China and India must realise we are enablers of their polluting activities- we import tons of plastic tat and cheap clothing from them which we chuck away and add to the destruction of the planet. We have to curb our consuming whether it’s inconvenient it not.

Indeed but it is difficult to buy anything that doesn't come from them these days. I do my best to buy things with less of a footprint but even if they are assembled nearby, the components come from much further afield. Globalisation is something that successive Governments have been happy to promote at the cost of the planet.

Good post northern lass my son is also invested in climate change as he is an environmental scientist and I get much of my information from him. And as you say it is by no means certain that life will survive, in fact quite the reverse.

The big issue is that presumably before we get to that catastrophe - there will be massive human climate migration with all the attendant issues. We are already seeing it in the natural world.

icanhandthemback India and China, unfortunately (and rightly, perhaps) now want to benefit from the wealth created from their own 'industrial revolution', just as GB did from the 1700s onwards. It is depressing.

Katie59:
"If all the predictions of the doom merchants were facts, life on the planet will cease to exist, clearly that’s not going to happen"

I don't think it is clear that life on the planet will continue. I think those who study and research climate change ie scientists, and presumably these are the people you refer to as 'doom merchants', see a time when life will cease. My son is one such researcher who has a PhD in atmospheric pollution and is based at a prestigious university.

I'm afraid, and I use that term in the true sense, that we are living through a time when 'every little helps' is basically peeing in the wind. We need *BIG *changes and, as others have said, this isn't politically expedient.

May I suggest reading David MacKay's research, which is as relevant today as when he published:

www.withouthotair.com/

It is available to download for free....or, of course, take no realistic and informed interest in the subject and die happy in ignorance.

I think our political system is incapable of dealing with climate change because politicians are focussed on the short term cycle of electoral successes or failure, mainly don't have a full understanding of science and risk having any longer term plans scuppered by the next lot of narcissists and psychopaths to gain power.

Pascal30 I am interested in what you say about living our own lives 'in an ecological way'. Beyond recycling whatever I can, not using chemicals in the garden, eating little meat, saving energy and not buying lots of 'stuff' I don't really know how to begin doing what you say so I would be glad to listen to your advice.

biglouis

I believe that as the environment deteriorates the green and extreme activist parties will gain power and eventually sweep away todays crooked elite.

There will be a new elite who judge harshly those who have more than one child in a world which is globally overpopulated. Each individual will bear not only their own carbon footprint but those of the offspring they produce. Families will be castigated as consumers and producers of waste and will be charged extra taxes.

I suggest you read a book call "The Forcing". It's a novel written by a scientist and was recently our local book club read.

I think your proposition is illogical. Where society starts to collapse and counties are destroyed by floods, fire and war we will a) need the young and b) everyone over about 40 will probably be held to account by them. Theses over 40s will be "othered" harsherly. This will be in ways than those on here, who love "othering" so many groups because of who they are, have not even dreamed of.

TBH I thought it was more about stratification, so I’m interested in this “new” explanation.

orly

Ironically one of the reasons given for the rise in sea temperature around our southern coasts is the fall in particulates being emitted from shipping in the Channel into the atmosphere along with a fall in dust from the Sahara - both of which reflect the sun's rays back towards space.

Do you have an explanation for the North Sea temperature rise as well?

I save water by not running it while brushing my teeth - every little helps

katie39 I agree wholeheartedly with your comments. Thank you for calming down tge scaremongering

Those who point the finger at China and India must realise we are enablers of their polluting activities- we import tons of plastic tat and cheap clothing from them which we chuck away and add to the destruction of the planet. We have to curb our consuming whether it’s inconvenient it not.

If all the predictions of the doom merchants were facts, life on the planet will cease to exist, clearly that’s not going to happen Climates will change, they always have, it makes sense to reduce pollution and consume less resources, globally that is not happening. We saw a brief reduction in CO2 levels during Covid now it has shot up again, there is no reason to be optimistic that anything we do makes any difference.

I live in the States. I get around walking and using public transport as we can no longer drive. When we did we rode public transport to work and took the car out perhaps once or twice a week. Children biked or used public transport to get to lessons and practices, on their own when teens and accompanied by a parent when younger. Our cars lasted 10 to 15 years before replacement. In 55 years of marriage we owned 4 cars, all used. My husband and I are both from large cities and were not accustomed to driving everywhere. We chose to live in the inner city, close to work and everything else. We used the train whenever possible for holidays in the US. We recycled and composted from the 1970s and bought local food whenever possible. We still do all these things. However we do use Air Conditioning. Today it was 35C and the humidity was 65%. Nighttime temperatures are low enough in June that we can usually switch it off and open windows. July, August, and September will be a different story with highs in the upper 30s and lows in the low 30s or upper 20s. Unbearable particularly for 75 and 80 year olds.

My US-based son told me something extraordinary last week that makes me despair that anything will ever be done to protect the planet.

The cinema he recently visited had the usual air conditioning system but also, all the seats were fitted with heating so people could then adjust their own ‘mini-climate’ to suit their warmth requirements.

I know that in itself is a small thing but if it’s indicative of the mindset, how will anything ever change?

Even if people do not accept climate change as a real and present danger, we can at least see the damage too much waste and emissions have on the health of ourselves and other species

So we can just do what we can anyway and that's enough

orly please will you let me know where you got the info about dust etc from? I haven't heard about this before. Many thanks

The following is from Sir Dieter Helm's book ^'Net Zero: How We Stop Causing Climate Change'^:

"What can we really do about the climate emergency?

The inconvenient truth is that we are causing the climate crisis with our carbon intensive lifestyles and that fixing – or even just slowing – it will affect all of us. But it can be done.

In Net Zero, economist Dieter Helm addresses the action we all need to take to tackle the climate emergency: personal, local, national and global. Reducing our own carbon consumption is the first step. Helm argues that we, the ultimate polluters, should pay based on how much carbon the products we buy produce. We need a carbon price, and one that applies to everything and everywhere, from flights, to food and farming.
The goal of net zero carbon emissions needs a rethink and this book sets out how to do it in a plan that could and would work. Do this and we make no further contribution to global warming, in a way that embraces sustainable economic growth and does not harm other aspects of the environment in the process. There is a solution and we must find it. Everything is at stake."

Dieter Helm is Professor of Economic Policy at the University of Oxford and Fellow in Economics at New College Oxford