Riots in France

I’ve just watched some coverage on Sky news of the support your mayor protests in France. The majority of the crowds seemed to be older, white French citizens who sand the anthem.
I saw two women interviewed, both black French citizens, they absolutely opposed the riots. The age of most protestors arrested is 17 but many as young as 12. White French seem disproportionately not represented
What a nightmare

It is indeed a nightmare and it just seems to keep on going on. I feel sorry for all the people who have had their cars and properties damaged and destroyed. It must be soul destroying to have the business you’ve worked all your life for go up in flames. I saw the grandmother of the boy who was shot on television today, first time I’ve seen anyone interviewed as I’m in Greece, but she was appealing for the riots to stop.

Louella12

From what I've seen and read, the cat was stationary when the policeman had the gun aimed into the car. The car would have shifted down even with the driver incapacitated.

But the fact that the French police immediately arrested and charged this policeman speaks volumes. They will be very aware of what happened. An arrest and remand in custody would not have happened under any other circumstance.

The policeman involved has apologised . Had he felt he was in the position where he needed to shoot he'd not be apologising.

I read that, because the car was automatic, when the driver took his foot off the pedal the car shot forward and the policeman thought he was driving away. I know when we were in Paris ( probably due to watching Spiral) I felt very nervous knowing that the police carried firearms and would assume that people would be careful not to get into a situation where they might use them.

I read that, because the car was automatic, when the driver took his foot off the pedal the car shot forward and the policeman thought he was driving away

I don't understand that, an automatic hardly moves forward, it might only creep very gently, unless the accelerator is pressed.

I don’t know much about automatics to be honest. I know someone in my village drove into the post office ( or it might have been the garage when we had a garage) because she wasn’t used to automatics and it shot forward! Which always made me a bit wary of them!

I don’t drive an automatic so don’t really know, but it does sound like a possibility to me. But in reality I don’t know.

But in some ways the type of car makes no difference really, because the police officer had already warned something like, "If you move, I'll put a bullet in you". (Can't remember the exact words in French). So the officer had in mind to shoot him anyway?

MayBee70
It’s best for everyone for you to keep away from them if you’re that confused how an automatic works.
I drive both.

I have an automatic (my fourth) and Callistemon21 is right: an automatic creeps forward if the accelerator remains unpressed, enabling the driver to have control at low speeds e.g. for parking manoeuvres or in queues.

Whether the car was automatic or not, whether it shot forward or not, that is not an excuse to shoot the driver and kill him.

I read in my local paper here that in the nearest city to me
they burnt down the local Maternelle in their sector.
Its just mindblowing and creates a circle of deprivation.

M0nica

Whether the car was automatic or not, whether it shot forward or not, that is not an excuse to shoot the driver and kill him.

Can't say it better than that.

The problem is that in highly charged situations mistakes are made, the driver could easily have taken his foot off a pedal, in the same way the police officer could have thought he was in danger.

Mistakes are always going to be made but that does not mean there is bias or intent on either side, being a trained firearm officer does not mean they are immune from mistakes.

No police office wants to be involved in a death, I have a friend whose son was a firearms officer in the UK, he gave it up after about 5 yrs, the armed criminals high on drugs he was having to face were bad enough, but the risk of shooting a bystander was too high for him, he’s now a motorcycle traffic cop.

But why did the policeman feel this was a situation where he needed to push a gun through the window and use it if the car moved.

This was a normal police stop, not the pursuit of a dangerous criminal. If this event is considered justifiable then why is it just one death and not tens, or even hundreds every week, because stops and drive aways like this are very common.

I saw on the news this morning that €1m had been raised for the offending police officer! More than has been raised for the teen’s family. I don’t know why they would be raising money for the police officer. Do they have legal aid in France? I’m sure they do.

M0nica

But why did the policeman feel this was a situation where he needed to push a gun through the window and use it if the car moved.

This was a normal police stop, not the pursuit of a dangerous criminal. If this event is considered justifiable then why is it just one death and not tens, or even hundreds every week, because stops and drive aways like this are very common.

My brother works in the US his advice is if you are stopped by the police don’t argue and do as you are told.

If you argue they will draw their weapons, that’s when it gets dangerous and if they think it’s a stolen car they will be even more suspicious.

If you look at Jean Messiha's gofundme page, the message is all about supporting the police officer who was doing his job. What struck me was the tens of thousands of €10 or €20 donations from ordinary French people, not large organisations.
The fact that the Maire of L'Haÿ-les-Roses also had his house and family attacked has added to this sentiment, that French people should support those who are there to protect them. Many French towns held peaceful meetings outside their town halls yesterday to express these feelings.
I gather the boy's mother held her own very different march and is also hoping to raise money.

Katie59

M0nica

But why did the policeman feel this was a situation where he needed to push a gun through the window and use it if the car moved.

This was a normal police stop, not the pursuit of a dangerous criminal. If this event is considered justifiable then why is it just one death and not tens, or even hundreds every week, because stops and drive aways like this are very common.

My brother works in the US his advice is if you are stopped by the police don’t argue and do as you are told.

If you argue they will draw their weapons, that’s when it gets dangerous and if they think it’s a stolen car they will be even more suspicious.

That sounds about right Katie59.
Everytime you see police stopping someone, it usually starts with "Turn your engine off" " Get out if the car" etc. Before weapons are drawn.

That’s the same here though. Traffic stops only usually get out of hand when the occupant(s) of the car don’t comply. Only difference is our police don’t routinely carry guns.

https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202307/medium-15779-a24f4871-b592-4629-85a6-1f3ef0278a37.png https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202307/medium-69827-f933ffc7-4e07-4b0f-8f3d-c1293459d8dd.png

M0nica
But why did the policeman feel this was a situation where he needed to push a gun through the window and use it if the car moved.

With respect, Monica I don’t think any of us can put ourselves in the mindset of the policeman in question or indeed any of the French police in their relations with Arab/African/black immigrants. This graph shows how many more times those of Arab origin are stopped by the police than black African or white citizens in parts of Paris and in London. There is clearly a problem, not least because France has a higher proportion of citizens of African origin compared to other ethnic origins again, in comparison with other countries.
I make no judgement and don’t even pretend to understand, but the stats seem to indicate different pressures on social issues and potentially the enforcement of law

Ashcombe

I have an automatic (my fourth) and Callistemon21 is right: an automatic creeps forward if the accelerator remains unpressed, enabling the driver to have control at low speeds e.g. for parking manoeuvres or in queues.

For what it is worth, mine cuts out altogether and I have to touch the accelerator for the engine to restart. After 12 months I am usually able to avoid starting with a little kangaroo hop!

I’ve just read a report about the riots where locals are claiming that these young rioters are in thrall to gangs who egg them on into causing trouble. It must be so difficult for the parents when they’re having to battle people who are offering their children drugs/thrills and a chance to rebel.

All over France people are peacefully showing their support for the authorities by massing Infront of their Mairie

I’m glad our police have guns. Many would not be here today if they didn’t. They are not trigger happy and there is always an extensive enquiry any time they actually use the guns. I wouldn’t want them to be like they are in the USA but because those who have guns are in the minority here they don’t have the same sort of issues.

M0nica
But why did the policeman feel this was a situation where he needed to push a gun through the window and use it if the car moved.

Perhaps he was remembering Nice.