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Bonus Holes..as an alternative to a vagina.

(189 Posts)
DiamondLily Sun 09-Jul-23 09:36:42

From a Woman's charity, dedicated to women's health,

What a revolting name, for a vagina. Who thinks up this nonsense?🙄

Julie Bindell has written an article for the DM:

"As holes go, they are arguably the most important in the world. Every man and woman ever to have lived – except those born by caesarean section – has sprung forth into this world from one.

And yet a charity dedicated to women's health, Jo's Cervical Cancer Trust, is suggesting that the word 'vagina' could be referred to as the 'bonus hole' to avoid offending or excluding trans men or 'non-binary' people.

As a feminist campaigner, I am appalled. I've spent time over the decades trying to raise awareness among women about our bodies.

I've encouraged women to unlearn the shame associated with our biology.

So the idea that we should stop referring to the vagina by its name is grossly offensive.

I grew up absorbing the message that our bodies were dirty.

We would use euphemisms to describe its parts, because 'vagina' and even 'breast' were considered unpleasant.

I recall, back in the Eighties, buying tampons only to have the shopkeeper quickly put the box in a brown paper bag as if it were a porn magazine. But we feminists learned to take pride in our physical form.

I would shake the tampons out of the bag to make the point that I was not ashamed of menstruating. After all, it's a reality for half the population.

It's worth noting that this form of McCarthyite censorship is reserved for descriptions of female anatomy only. That's why this is nothing short of misogyny.

There is no such suggestion, of course, to swap words that men use to describe their biology.

Perhaps, to be fair, we should change 'penis' to 'flesh roll' to avoid offending trans women? I'm sure men won't object. Just a thought."

www.dailymail.co.uk/columnists/article-12278639/JULIE-BINDEL-says-womens-health-charity-guilty-short-misogyny-again.html

icanhandthemback Wed 12-Jul-23 13:43:13

The actual context is trying to find a term trans men and non binary people feel comfortable using in order to help them feel confident seeking medical treatment.

Fair enough but surely they could come up with a better term than this which is misogynistic and will inevitably be used by men for a born woman. If somebody really feels they are a woman and has taken such steps to have the surgery, they would understand that it is inappropriate. Similarly, woman who transitioned to be a man would appreciate just how misogynistic the world is for women. Any decent Non-binary person should appreciate that too.

Smileless2012 Wed 12-Jul-23 14:01:32

Well I think it's ridiculous and don't understand why trans men and non binary people would have a problem using the correct terminologyconfused.

icanhandthemback Wed 12-Jul-23 15:00:19

Smileless2012

Well I think it's ridiculous and don't understand why trans men and non binary people would have a problem using the correct terminologyconfused.

Because language counts. If you identify as non-binary, you may not want a fundamentally female label for your body parts. It won't hurt us to take this into account as long as 'we', people who identify as biologically female, aren't affected. I am quite happy to be kind to people who have different thoughts to me as long as I am not being asked to compromise my beliefs.

LovesBach Wed 12-Jul-23 15:57:31

It's difficult to believe at times that this type of news report isn't some sort of unpleasant joke. Why can't people shut up about their bodies and their sexuality, both of which should be a private matter for the individual, or the individual and partner(s). Ask their family, friends and associates to call them whatever they choose to be called, and then get on with the life they want to lead. This particular situation is grossly offensive to me, born, and living, as a woman, with a woman's body. 'Bonus hole'? Whose ugly and stupid idea was this? It is easy to feel bullied and marginalised just from the media reports, and we shouldn't have to feel this way.

FarNorth Wed 12-Jul-23 16:26:51

icanhandthemback

^The actual context is trying to find a term trans men and non binary people feel comfortable using in order to help them feel confident seeking medical treatment.^

Fair enough but surely they could come up with a better term than this which is misogynistic and will inevitably be used by men for a born woman. If somebody really feels they are a woman and has taken such steps to have the surgery, they would understand that it is inappropriate. Similarly, woman who transitioned to be a man would appreciate just how misogynistic the world is for women. Any decent Non-binary person should appreciate that too.

.

Unfortunately, some women who claim to be trans or nonbinary do have such a demeaning attitude to their own bodies.

I'd guess it's a result of too much exposure to porn at a young age, to misogynistic attitudes of men surrounding them and, possibly, to sexual abuse in childhood.

Anniel Wed 12-Jul-23 16:44:08

We should all stick together on this subject. We are women and we have vaginas, I will not be allowing this dreadful use of an organ that delivered my children described in this disgusting manner. Enough is enough.

Smileless2012 Wed 12-Jul-23 16:58:45

Yes I take your point icanhandthemback and of course people can refer to their body parts in anyway they choose but why do we need to know that some are calling their vaginas 'bonus holes'? Why has a charity supposedly dedicated to women's health made this public? Surely this would be between a patient and their health care provider.

Women who find this term offensive have been affected because it's caused offence.

icanhandthemback Wed 12-Jul-23 17:15:46

I would only be offended if my vagina was labelled thus, Smileless2012. I think we have to careful that people can't open their mouths without somebody being offended which it sometimes feels like. As long as it is literally for those who to use such a term or even better an alternative, I don't think women should be up in arms about it. It should only be offensive surely to those of whom it is directed and we are assured that it isn't us. However, it worries me that it might be the thin end of the wedge which all these things appear to be.

BeverleyJB Wed 12-Jul-23 17:24:13

icanhandthemback

Smileless2012

Well I think it's ridiculous and don't understand why trans men and non binary people would have a problem using the correct terminologyconfused.

Because language counts. If you identify as non-binary, you may not want a fundamentally female label for your body parts. It won't hurt us to take this into account as long as 'we', people who identify as biologically female, aren't affected. I am quite happy to be kind to people who have different thoughts to me as long as I am not being asked to compromise my beliefs.

Exactly - language DOES count and it's the erasure of correct language that dehumanises women.

And these people “who have different thoughts to you” should absolutely not be permitted to demand that others deny reality, including biological reality, just because they can.

Smileless2012 Wed 12-Jul-23 17:26:27

I agree with the feeling that we can't open our mouths without causing offence icanhandthemback but as I've already posted, why was there a need to make this public?

I share your concerns although IMO the thin end of the wedge was in evidence some time ago. I do see this as being directed at all women because all women have vaginas, and very few I'm sure would ever wish them to be referred too as bonus holes.

icanhandthemback Wed 12-Jul-23 18:25:32

BeverleyJB

icanhandthemback

Smileless2012

Well I think it's ridiculous and don't understand why trans men and non binary people would have a problem using the correct terminologyconfused.

Because language counts. If you identify as non-binary, you may not want a fundamentally female label for your body parts. It won't hurt us to take this into account as long as 'we', people who identify as biologically female, aren't affected. I am quite happy to be kind to people who have different thoughts to me as long as I am not being asked to compromise my beliefs.

Exactly - language DOES count and it's the erasure of correct language that dehumanises women.

And these people “who have different thoughts to you” should absolutely not be permitted to demand that others deny reality, including biological reality, just because they can.

But we are assured that this does not extend to our bodies therefore our correct language is not being erased. There are other words such as Cis or birthing people where I would agree with you through and through because they are directed at us. If language matter to us which it does, then we have to accept it matters to people who live their lives with different gender identifications so if they want to call their body parts something different, why should we object? This isn't an erasure of the correct language but a different term for those that want it. The day my GP refers to my vagina as a bonus hole, glory hole or any other sort of hole, I will be offended and will let him know so in no uncertain terms!
There are so many things we need to protect in this new world but somebody else's labels for them, is not something to waste much sleep over.

LauraNorderr Wed 12-Jul-23 19:25:13

I would have thought a bonus hole was the nineteenth hole offering a long gin and tonic after a boring game of a golf.

NotSpaghetti Wed 12-Jul-23 19:48:04

This isn't an erasure of the correct language but a different term for those that want it.

Exactly

Smileless2012 Wed 12-Jul-23 19:52:25

We'll have to wait and see if this particular term isn't extended to women in general but I'm not convinced it wont be bearing in mind what we've already witnessed.

I'll ask again, why this needed to be publicised in the first place? Why would anyone apart from a patient and their medical care giver, need to know what name someone assigns to their body parts?

grin Mr. S. said the same thing Laura only it was a pint, not a G & T.

DiamondLily Thu 13-Jul-23 08:35:49

My argument was that this has been used by a Women's health charity, in their publicity, aimed at women and their health.

Giving body parts silly names, that have never been used before, will just add confusion for those women who perhaps don't speak English as a first language.

It does sound like it's for a golf course.

People might call their bits and bobs all sorts of things - but leaflets, publicity, articles etc should be factually correct with their language.🙄

Smileless2012 Thu 13-Jul-23 08:52:46

Exactly DL. We don't need to know what other names individuals assign to their body parts, so why has this been publicised?

DiamondLily Thu 13-Jul-23 08:56:15

Smileless2012

Exactly DL. We don't need to know what other names individuals assign to their body parts, so why has this been publicised?

I don't know, but it was the health charity that bought it to public attention.🙂

FarNorth Thu 13-Jul-23 09:24:39

To signal how wonderful they are, I expect.
It would have been perfectly adequate to say that they're happy to use any terms that patients want for their anatomy.

Lathyrus Thu 13-Jul-23 09:49:49

This is a charity that is supposed to benefit women’s health.

How many women will be put off accessing a Charity that refers to vaginas as bonus holes. Quite a lot, I think.

I would feel that I wouldn’t be treated with respect. It is very similar to the Women’s Refuge that most women didn’t want to use.

Once again males have succeeded in making a place that was created for women a hostile and unwelcoming environment.

What is the point of a Charity that alienates many of those it is supposed to help?

NotSpaghetti Thu 13-Jul-23 10:09:26

It has been used as a term amongst transactions men since 2007.

#nothingness

2007, Merri Lisa Johnson, Third Wave Feminism and Television: Jane Puts it in Box, I.B.Tauris

NotSpaghetti Thu 13-Jul-23 10:11:34

Sorry.
Autocorrect!

Should have said:

It has been used as a term amongst trans men since 2007.

#nothingnew

2007, Merri Lisa Johnson, Third Wave Feminism and Television: Jane Puts it in Box I.B.Tauris

NotSpaghetti Thu 13-Jul-23 10:21:41

This has now been "fact checked"
It is a
document for medical staff leading cervical screenings with trans men or non-binary patients in which the terms "bonus hole" and "front hole" were listed as alternatives to the word "vagina."

TerriBull Thu 13-Jul-23 12:31:05

Eureka! Betty Sue, Sarah Lou or whatever that person calls themselves has been arrested for inciting violence, threatening to punch Terfs' faces in. Strange how it took so long hmm

DiamondLily Thu 13-Jul-23 13:03:55

Good. Inciting violence helps nothing. 🙄

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12294651/Trans-activist-told-crowd-punch-TERFs-face-arrested-incitement-violence.html

FarNorth Thu 13-Jul-23 13:47:11

I hope he's in a male prison.