Malnutrition in England

Callistemon21

^One of my children's favourite meals was ploughman's style meal with lots of bits of salad, vegetable sticks and fruit. It was a perfectly adequate meal and filling^.

Yes, it sounds nutritious, but that is not what is offered for £3.50.

Exactly!

icanhandthemback

Amazingly the French seem to manage to be healthy with baguettes and I never butter mine! T|he filling does not have to include carbs.

But the French eat other things besides baguettes.

growstuff

icanhandthemback

Amazingly the French seem to manage to be healthy with baguettes and I never butter mine! T|he filling does not have to include carbs.

But the French eat other things besides baguettes.

The French children I looked after used to dunk their baguettes into their hot chocolat.

But I bet they ate other things as well.

growstuff

Norah Humans can actually survive without any carbs at all and can use fat and protein for energy. Admittedly, carbs are an efficient form of energy (particularly for the brain), but most people eat too many carbs, as they are the cheapest form of energy. Bread is not intrinsically healthy, particularly the salt and sugar. It's about balance. I haven't eaten bread for years.

Wholemeal bread is healthy compared with many other foods though growstuff, and although I know you have to follow a strict diet I’m sure you aren’t advocating that children should do the same?
There’s going to be no point making school meals perfectly nutritionally balanced if the children won’t eat what’s on offer - I think it’s actually going to be a real challenge, and younger children tend to be quite fussy, they just won’t eat at all if they don’t like the look of something.

The trouble is that if children eat cereal for breakfast and chips (or even a baked potato or pasta) in the evening and then have a carby baguette for lunch, they are overloading on carbs and not getting enough protein and fat. It will fill them up and it's cheap, but won't be doing their long-term health much good.

No Casdon I'm talking about the general population. Wholemeal bread isn't that much healthier than white bread - it just provides a some extra fibre. I think it's totally wrong that school meals aren't nutritionally balanced and filling them up with bread isn't balanced.

growstuff

But I bet they ate other things as well.

Horse meat amongst other things.

growstuff

No Casdon I'm talking about the general population. Wholemeal bread isn't that much healthier than white bread - it just provides a some extra fibre. I think it's totally wrong that school meals aren't nutritionally balanced and filling them up with bread isn't balanced.

There is nothing wrong with wholemeal bread at all, it has more fibre, vitamins and minerals than white, and is good for you unless you’re on a carb restricted diet. Obviously children shouldn’t eat it three times a day as would be the case for any foodstuff, but they should have carbs at every meal. I can’t honestly imagine children enjoying (or eating) their meal without any.

Callistemon21

growstuff

But I bet they ate other things as well.

Horse meat amongst other things.

Why not? Incidentally, eating horse meat is regional and most French people don't eat it.

growstuff

The trouble is that if children eat cereal for breakfast and chips (or even a baked potato or pasta) in the evening and then have a carby baguette for lunch, they are overloading on carbs and not getting enough protein and fat. It will fill them up and it's cheap, but won't be doing their long-term health much good.

It is recommended that children get about half ther calories in the form of carbohydrates, some at each meal..

It is cheap, fatty food, sweet food and drinks that cause the problems with obesity.

growstuff

The trouble is that if children eat cereal for breakfast and chips (or even a baked potato or pasta) in the evening and then have a carby baguette for lunch, they are overloading on carbs and not getting enough protein and fat. It will fill them up and it's cheap, but won't be doing their long-term health much good.

Absolutely this!
This pattern of eating tends to cause spikes and troughs in blood glucose rather than the sustained release of energy from protein and good fats

Sorry Casdon commercially produced wholemeal bread isn't that much healthier than white bread. A baguette contains a huge amount of bread compared with its contents, which is why it isn't balanced. Incidentally, all veggies, fruit and milk produce contain carbs, so eating bread just isn't essential, especially if it's the main part of the meal.

Callistemon21

growstuff

The trouble is that if children eat cereal for breakfast and chips (or even a baked potato or pasta) in the evening and then have a carby baguette for lunch, they are overloading on carbs and not getting enough protein and fat. It will fill them up and it's cheap, but won't be doing their long-term health much good.

It is recommended that children get about half ther calories in the form of carbohydrates, some at each meal..

It is cheap, fatty food, sweet food and drinks that cause the problems with obesity.

That's debatable.

Calipso

growstuff

The trouble is that if children eat cereal for breakfast and chips (or even a baked potato or pasta) in the evening and then have a carby baguette for lunch, they are overloading on carbs and not getting enough protein and fat. It will fill them up and it's cheap, but won't be doing their long-term health much good.

Absolutely this!
This pattern of eating tends to cause spikes and troughs in blood glucose rather than the sustained release of energy from protein and good fats

Thank you. I sometimes feel like Canute fighting the waves when I write about overloading of carbs.

A filled baguette is providing far more than half the calories from carbs.

growstuff

A filled baguette is providing far more than half the calories from carbs.

That's why DGD gets a packed lunch now.
Schools sell a lot of rubbish alongside the healthier choices.

Why does anybody think that if children are given bread for lunch, it'll be all they eat? It is one meal of their day. It is up to their parents to see that they have a balanced diet overall. If you are buying in quantity (and we were talking about schools providing lunches) then you could do a reasonable amount for £3.50. Obviously things have changed recently due to rising inflation.
The majority need a good balance of carbs, proteins and vegetables. The Healthy Food Pyramid which is what the Government advices puts Carbs at the base of the pyramid. Now, personally, I am not convinced but that is the current recommendation. The beauty of bread is that you can add vitamins, etc and you can also make it with other things in it to make it more nutritious like grains, sunflower seeds, olives, tomatoes, cranberries, etc, etc. The alternative carbs like pasta are no better for nutritional purposes unless you add something to them but they are filling and they slow down the blood sugar spike.
As a diabetic, my bread intake is minimal but then so is pasta and potatoes but I don't think that the diet I eat is necessary for non-diabetics.

You are missing the point entirely.

The whole point of advocating free nutritious school dinners for all state pupils is so that every child has a good, balanced meal each school day and there is no discrimination shown to those who have free school meals.

It is up to their parents to see that they have a balanced diet overall
I'm sure they would like to but not all can do this.

growstuff

Calipso

growstuff

The trouble is that if children eat cereal for breakfast and chips (or even a baked potato or pasta) in the evening and then have a carby baguette for lunch, they are overloading on carbs and not getting enough protein and fat. It will fill them up and it's cheap, but won't be doing their long-term health much good.

Absolutely this!
This pattern of eating tends to cause spikes and troughs in blood glucose rather than the sustained release of energy from protein and good fats

Thank you. I sometimes feel like Canute fighting the waves when I write about overloading of carbs.

You’re a zealot because you have to follow this diet. Your regime, although no doubt healthy for you is not going to be wanted, or eaten by the average child. You’ve got to temper ideal with reality.
I’m not saying that bread is the ideal meal component, but school kitchens aren’t staffed or sized to cook perfectly nutritionally balanced meals from scratch for hundreds of in some cases, using fresh local ingredients, you have to be realistic about what they can provide and what children will eat.

No Casdon I'm not a zealot, but I know quite a bit about nutrition.

My own diabetes was probably caused by eating too many carbs because I was never overweight, but during my childhood, 20s and early 30s, I ate quite a lot of carbs. At the time fat was considered to be the "bad guy", so I filled up on what I thought were "healthy" carbs (they were cheap too). Unbeknown to me, my pancreas was producing excess insulin to deal with them and eventually wore out.

If the point of giving children a school lunch is to compensate for bad nutrition at home, the school lunch needs to be well-balanced and something comprising mainly bread just isn't. Eating carbs will make children feel full and give them instant energy, but it's storing up all sorts of problems for the future, in addition to not providing essential fat and protein.

Incidentally, most secondary schools are equipped with kitchens and have a number of staff.

Callistemon21

growstuff

A filled baguette is providing far more than half the calories from carbs.

That's why DGD gets a packed lunch now.
Schools sell a lot of rubbish alongside the healthier choices.

I agree with you. I gave my children well-balanced packed lunches with vegetable batons, nuts, cheese, mini sandwiches and fruit.

I think the important thing is that children are not trying to learn with gnawing hunger pangs putting them off. The first priority should be to feed them, preferably with no discrimination between those deemed able to pay and those not. Overall the offering should be balanced, but a carbtastic baguette one day will do no harm if they get protein and fats on others. The emphasis should be on basic but wholesome nutrition.

If a side-effect is to stop faddiness, so much the better - I’m sure many parents would agree. I know many children turn up their noses at anything unfamiliar, or refuse to eat things they don’t like, but whilst I don’t advocate the ‘sit here until your plate is clear’ approach of my youth I do think that on the whole they will eat if they are hungry and there is little choice offered. A bowl of chunky soup and a baked potato with cheese or beans won’t cost a fortune and will keep a child full so that they can learn. It will also show them what a cheap but decent diet can look like, in the way that turkey twizzlers and processed potatoes will not.

but decent diet can look like, in the way that turkey twizzlers and processed potatoes will not.

I don't know if they've crept back in but turkey twizzlers were banned from school meals more than a decade ago. As was serving chips more than once a week.

But I do recall pizza and pasta being offered just about every day, which I don't think to be much better in nutritional terms...