So, The Sun is retreating with its tail between its legs.

Wyllow3

I wondered if the young man can get the lawyers to have some kind of injunction on his parents is all I suppose.

I wondered about that too, Wyllow. He should have to go through this.

Thanks, Wyllow.

That doesn't suggest that the lawyers told The Sun that the claims were false before they went to print though, does it? I keep getting cut off, as there is a big storm here, and the Internet is dropping 😡

I wondered if the young man can get the lawyers to have some kind of injunction on his parents is all I suppose.

Just quickly googled this for you, Doodledog
www.theguardian.com/media/live/2023/jul/10/bbc-investigation-suspended-presenter-police-latest-updates

AmberSpyglass

Oh, the timing was 1000% intentional! It’s a dead cat story designed to get people talking about anything other than Johnson’s refusal to hand over his messages.

Yes, I agree, but when I said that I was told I was fantasising and laughed at.

I do believe that there is some truth in the HE story, as it has been rumoured for some time that the BBC was about to get its own 'Schofield situation' to deal with, but I also think it is a dead cat, and that Murdoch is ruthless. TBH, what has shocked me the most about this is the sheer malice towards those with a different POV on this thread.

I didn't know that the young man had lawyers on the case before all of this blew up though. Do you know where that was reported, please? (I have been working today and haven't been on top of the news.)

Oh, the timing was 1000% intentional! It’s a dead cat story designed to get people talking about anything other than Johnson’s refusal to hand over his messages.

At the end of the day, The Sun referred to the adult involved as a child and alleged illegal activity happened which police have now confirmed wasn’t the case. The Sun had been told by the young person's lawyer beforehand the claims they were making were unfounded and published anyway, without once mentioning that the supposed victim had been in contact via the lawyers.

This has to finish them, no matter what Huw Edwards has done.

As I said on another thread (I've lost count of what is where now) the timing of this is 'interesting' to say the least. That theory was ridiculed, but I still think it is a distinctly possible reason for something that has been 'bubbling under' for some time to explode when it did.

I agree AmberSpyglass. The Sun has form for lying as well as manipulating.
I’ve just skimmed the DM on line. They’re blaming the BBC journalists, rather than the Sun for harassing their colleague. Another manipulative ‘news’ paper.

It is possible for HE to have acted inappropriately without having acted illegally and for The Sun to have published on very flimsy ‘evidence’. I don’t trust that newspaper’s journalistic integrity one jot and manipulating a story to suit their agenda feels like the most likely approach:

Iam64

I’m pondering Carson’s view about head/heart posters. I rarely venture into `estrangement because I know if I do, my views may cause offence. I post on news and politics, as well as trans. I don’t see myself as sitting in only head or only heart. I don’t see that polarised position sitting easily on this issue either

No, I am struggling a bit for the same reasons, but it is an interesting view all the same.

I’m pondering Carson’s view about head/heart posters. I rarely venture into `estrangement because I know if I do, my views may cause offence. I post on news and politics, as well as trans. I don’t see myself as sitting in only head or only heart. I don’t see that polarised position sitting easily on this issue either

Wyllow3

How can the Talk Tv thing be stopped?
It's vile and disgusting and harmful, but can it be illegal in any way?

Well, considering the speculation about the family it might be their best chance to give their side of the story. I don't see how it can be illegal unless we censor the media.

That's interesting, Casdon. I'm not sure I understand yet, but it's definitely worth thinking about. I post on Trans threads and more general N&P ones, but not on Estrangement, as luckily I have no experience of that. I'm not sure why any of those 'groups' would attract particular posting styles, but I'll give it some thought.

How can the Talk Tv thing be stopped?
It's vile and disgusting and harmful, but can it be illegal in any way?

Doodledog

Casdon

Doodledog

Do you all believe that there is a war in Ukraine? Or that strikes have been threatened at Gatwick? Have you seen these things for yourselves? Or do you pick and choose what you believe in the media according to your prejudice?

I don’t believe in making assumptions, it’s as simple as that. Presenting your argument and including elements which are assumptions rather than fact weakens the argument.

I understand that, and if someone posts that 8 out of 10 cats enjoy doing crosswords, or that the government is responsible for the rainy July I would want to see some sort of evidence, but when we talk about stories in the News, we have to reply on what we have read (or heard or seen), and that is taken for granted. Unless we have been personally involved in something we can't provide evidence of a news story (and even then, as likely as not it will be an interpretation).

As I say, nobody pounces on people talking about Ukraine and insists that we have simply been told that Zelensky is president, or that the Russians have invaded, so anyone talking about that needs to give proof, yet for some reason in this case from the start of the story people have been expected to prove things that simply cannot be proven.

For one thing, the identities of at least some of the protagonists (ie the parents, the young men and the BBC employees who have reported inappropriate behaviour) are anonymous, so their comments can not be made public. For another, there is an ongoing investigation by the BBC, which will be held up whilst HE is in hospital - so again, none of the statements can be published. We know that there are lawyers acting for both sides, so there will be a lot of things being scripted, too.

Everything that any of us has posted, whether that is to say that Mr X (as he was known before his wife's statement) suffered from depression, that the young man concerned may have been bought off, or that the whole thing is an invention is discussing an opinion about what has been reported in the press (or on social media in the case of the depression, as he had not at that time been named officially).

Some of us believe that there has been no smoke without fire, and others that The Sun has made it all up and that HE is innocent, but both of those things are opinions. Nobody has (AFAIK) the definitive answers to any of this, as the story has a long way to run. Yet it is those in the 'no smoke without fire' camp, (who may also see the MH defence as rather too convenient) who are being told that we are speculating and 'ruining lives', and have been accused of being perverted amongst other horribly insulting names. Across the various threads on this topic it is clear that HQ has decided that several comments were so offensive that they have deleted them.

I don't understand why this issue in particular has become so adversarial - all the posts about this are speculation - whether about HE's innocence or his guilt, and nobody gave anything away before he was named (although the 'depression' comment came close to doing so).

I think I do understand why it has become adversarial on this thread. It’s very rare on one thread to have the regular posters from each of the Trans, Estrangement and Politics threads, there aren’t many people who cross between them - and the engagement styles on the different types of threads are very different. It’s a clash of head and heart people.

You have put it very well Doodledog.

AmberSpyglass

The war in Ukraine and Zelensky as president can be independently verified - nothing the Sun has published about this man can be.

No, much of it can't, for the reasons I have mentioned. So the 'it is all made up' point of view has no more going for it than the 'no smoke without fire' one.

The fact that someone came to The Sun after complaining to the BBC (and the police?) has been verified though, as has the fact that HE was suspended, and that colleagues have complained about his behaviour.

The war in Ukraine and Zelensky as president can be independently verified - nothing the Sun has published about this man can be.

Casdon

Doodledog

Do you all believe that there is a war in Ukraine? Or that strikes have been threatened at Gatwick? Have you seen these things for yourselves? Or do you pick and choose what you believe in the media according to your prejudice?

I don’t believe in making assumptions, it’s as simple as that. Presenting your argument and including elements which are assumptions rather than fact weakens the argument.

I understand that, and if someone posts that 8 out of 10 cats enjoy doing crosswords, or that the government is responsible for the rainy July I would want to see some sort of evidence, but when we talk about stories in the News, we have to reply on what we have read (or heard or seen), and that is taken for granted. Unless we have been personally involved in something we can't provide evidence of a news story (and even then, as likely as not it will be an interpretation).

As I say, nobody pounces on people talking about Ukraine and insists that we have simply been told that Zelensky is president, or that the Russians have invaded, so anyone talking about that needs to give proof, yet for some reason in this case from the start of the story people have been expected to prove things that simply cannot be proven.

For one thing, the identities of at least some of the protagonists (ie the parents, the young men and the BBC employees who have reported inappropriate behaviour) are anonymous, so their comments can not be made public. For another, there is an ongoing investigation by the BBC, which will be held up whilst HE is in hospital - so again, none of the statements can be published. We know that there are lawyers acting for both sides, so there will be a lot of things being scripted, too.

Everything that any of us has posted, whether that is to say that Mr X (as he was known before his wife's statement) suffered from depression, that the young man concerned may have been bought off, or that the whole thing is an invention is discussing an opinion about what has been reported in the press (or on social media in the case of the depression, as he had not at that time been named officially).

Some of us believe that there has been no smoke without fire, and others that The Sun has made it all up and that HE is innocent, but both of those things are opinions. Nobody has (AFAIK) the definitive answers to any of this, as the story has a long way to run. Yet it is those in the 'no smoke without fire' camp, (who may also see the MH defence as rather too convenient) who are being told that we are speculating and 'ruining lives', and have been accused of being perverted amongst other horribly insulting names. Across the various threads on this topic it is clear that HQ has decided that several comments were so offensive that they have deleted them.

I don't understand why this issue in particular has become so adversarial - all the posts about this are speculation - whether about HE's innocence or his guilt, and nobody gave anything away before he was named (although the 'depression' comment came close to doing so).

I haven’t read the Sun since they told all those lies about the Hillsborogh disaster over 30 years ago . It’s a nasty vile paper and needs closing down .

DiamondLily

I think, whatever your circumstances, and no matter how much cash is thrust at you, if you sell out a family member, regardless of what they want, is never going to end well.

A few years back, a family member was offered a fair amount from The Sun to sell them a photo of a former schoolfriend who had been convicted of murder. Needless to say, they refused.

6 years ago a nephew posted on notebook full details of my darling daughter’s illness which was bipolar, I was devastated, my tummy churning now thinking of it, I don’t ‘do Facebook’ was told by a friend who read it, it’s so wrong

I think, whatever your circumstances, and no matter how much cash is thrust at you, if you sell out a family member, regardless of what they want, is never going to end well.

It seems like they are.

hmm] so much for the mother and stepfather going to the Sun out of frustration and concern for her son. The irony being that we're supposed to believe they did this because her son was being exploited, and here they are doing exactly the same thing!!!

You couldn't make it up could you.