Excellent article on economic migrants from genuine refugee

I have come to the conclusion that Furedi's article in the Daily Wail is without merit.

Excellent post Monica
mayisay no I m not the shortsighted one I ve done work with refugees and know the value.
No humanity at all notspagetti just shortsighted racism fed by the government The old divide and rule theory not moved on from the Nazi regime at all I m afraid We haven’t moved on an iota I grew up with notices in the windows of houses to let ‘No Irish no black no dogs’ and the same type of people are still around
And to the poster who said there’s no women or children on the boats how wrong are you I believe 100 children died in the hold of the boat that went down in Greek waters !!

At least threads like this show you the names of folks you would never want to be near

We probably all agree that "open borders" aren't possible or desirable Primrose53.

Chocolatelovinggran

Thank you M0nica for your words. As I have stated before, I am the great granddaughter of an ( Italian) economic migrant. He brought his family with him and supported them by setting up a small business. Three generations on , my children, and those of my cousins, are doctors and nurses, engineers and headteachers. Interestingly, my PhD student daughter is living in a Scandinavian country with her family- so maybe the economic- migrant blood is in her genes! I'm not suggesting that we should have open borders, just gently reminding people that not all economic migrants are violent benefit seekers.

I don’t think anybody has suggested that ALL economic migrants are benefit seekers. Anyway, I imagine 3 generations ago there were not benefits that attracted your family.

Many people will agree with you that we should not have open borders.👍

Thank you M0nica for your words. As I have stated before, I am the great granddaughter of an ( Italian) economic migrant. He brought his family with him and supported them by setting up a small business. Three generations on , my children, and those of my cousins, are doctors and nurses, engineers and headteachers. Interestingly, my PhD student daughter is living in a Scandinavian country with her family- so maybe the economic- migrant blood is in her genes! I'm not suggesting that we should have open borders, just gently reminding people that not all economic migrants are violent benefit seekers.

I find it a depressing and hostile piece I'm afraid.

Anyone who bemoans an attempt to hurry up processing of people who may be refugees, who resents a block on sending gay men back to certain countries (where they will be persecuted) and who objects to the pressure for "safe and legal" routes, is not someone to be listening to. In my opinion.

Where is the humanity here?

Why this contempt for economic migrants? All but very few come from desperately poor countries, where all that awaits them is unemployment and starvation.

Those prepared to take the risk of that difficult journey, often with two hazardous sea crossings, Mediterranean and Channel, are probably those with the highest courage resilience and determination in their countries and will be an asset to whichever country they end up in.

No, I am not arguing for open borders, and unchecked immigration. I am saying that we should respect all those who come over here, criminal element excepted. Ask yourselves whether you would have the courage to make the long uncertain journey they make, if it was the only way you could see to support your family and move them out of grinding poverty.

Are they any less admirable than all those Irish immigrants who fled Ireland in the 19th and 20th century for just the same reasons? I am descended from just such immigrants.

And Braverman is responsible for the shambolic performance of the Home Office. She should be sacked.

The Home Office doesn’t need clairvoyant powers, they need to train more staff to work more quickly.It’s progressing at a snails pace and has been for a long time.First, do as Germany is doing and send all Albanian men straight back home, second process teenagers and any children or mothers with children or families with or without their papers and any identification, third, those with ID and last of all those men without it.It’s a disgrace and a shambles at the mo.

as a real asylum seeker Furedi sees the difference between refugees in need of help and economic migrants here to earn more money than they could at home.

Perhaps the Home Office could use his clairvoyant powers to speed up processing the huge backlog of asylum applications😁

But everyone crossing on small boats have NOT destroyed their papers. Many of them keep their papers to prove who they are, how old they are, and where they come from, as well as evidence germane to their claim.

Yes, SOME immigrants do destroy their papers, but not all. Often those without have had their papers taken from them by the people smugglers.

The fact remains that the Furedi family exercised a choice to leave Austria and go to Canada using a safe and legal route. That is not the kind of choice enjoyed by refugees now seeking asylum in the UK because in most cases there is no safe and legal route and they are at risk of being deported to Rwanda which is hardly a safe destination given its history. Labelling everyone crossing on small boats as having destroyed their papers and pretending to be refugees begs the question: if Braverman could display some competence in speeding up the Home Office assessments we might find that most of them qualify as refugees. Of those assessed so far I gather a high proportion are so regarded and have been granted leave to remain in the UK.

It sure is something Primrose53 😂

DaisyAnneReturns

This forum is not all about you Oreo.

I notice you very carefully created a defection so you didn't have to answer my question.

You may not be a DM reader but the tools of populism have filtered down to many from them and from others.

Extremely pompous.

toscalily

Neither am I angry or or regular DM reader, I find it an annoying website to say the least. I do go and sometimes read if directed to have a look at something relevant by a GN member (as I think many do but don't want to admit to).

And, DaisyAnneReturns this forum is not all about you either.

But I didn't suggest it was toscalily.

You must be new Oreo so will update you.

Normally I use specialist dictating and checking software but I killed my computer (although I still blame Microsoft). The tablet I am using doesn't have the memory to load my software. So I am using the tablets dictating software and readily available online checker. The first is really really, whatever word you would like to use for not great.

Luckily none of this stops me using my brain. However, it does mean the odd oddity pops up. I'm afraid then it's down to you to work out what it meant. As far as I'm aware that has always been an unwritten rule on GN. We do not pick other people up on their spellings, their grammar or anything of that ilk, unless we're in pedants corner.

No let's not "turn it on its head". You do seem to have picked up a lot of very bad populist habits. You're not going to answer me. So in usual populist/DM manner you try and flip the question on its head and turn it around on me. That seems like such a waste of my time when posts take so long to write.

(Just in case your brain isn't working it was meant to be deflection)

Neither am I angry or or regular DM reader, I find it an annoying website to say the least. I do go and sometimes read if directed to have a look at something relevant by a GN member (as I think many do but don't want to admit to).

And, DaisyAnneReturns this forum is not all about you either.

DaisyAnneReturns

This forum is not all about you Oreo.

I notice you very carefully created a defection so you didn't have to answer my question.

You may not be a DM reader but the tools of populism have filtered down to many from them and from others.

Defection?
Let’s turn this on it’s head, which points did you disagree with in the article?
I agreed with all of them and as a real asylum seeker Furedi sees the difference between refugees in need of help and economic migrants here to earn more money than they could at home.

MerylStreep

Foxie48
Would you say that John Humphrys is a strange bedfellow for anyone on the right
He is a regular contributor to the Daily Mail.
Would you say the same for Michael Crick ( founder member of the channel 4 news team) who now is a regular contributor on GBNews.

Would depend completely on what JH says and writes. He describes himself as a "natural liberal" on wiki and says he changes his mind all the time. David Crick is a member of the LP (or was!). I've had a quick look at the DM online, JH's offering today is "What I told Huw over lunch about what it takes to be a trusted face of the BBC" hardly scintillating biting political comment. I understand the DM pays well.

This forum is not all about you Oreo.

I notice you very carefully created a defection so you didn't have to answer my question.

You may not be a DM reader but the tools of populism have filtered down to many from them and from others.

DaisyAnneReturns

Oreo

Good article thanks Primrose53
Also really good interesting comments Terribull👏🏻👏🏻

Germany is now wishing it hadn’t let so many migrants in as there are problems there.
It’s true that all European countries need migrant workers but not uncontrolled migration or thousands arriving every other day illegally on small boats.

In what way is it "good". It is a rant, and an ill thought through rant at that.

It is, of course, ideal for the Mr and Mrs Angry who comprise the bulk of the DM readership. They will reward it with praise. The average person is left with nothing except the uncomfortable feeling of him indulging, and encouraging others to indulge, in their dystopian 1984-style minutes of hate.

Am neither angry or of the DM readership.
My opinion that it’s a good article on the subject, that’s all.
Am sure I’m an average person too.
You didn’t like it, fair enough.

westendgirl

I have read the article, twice in fact which seems to me to be a diatribe against the House of Lords. He talks about genuine refugees but fails to say that there is no way for the genuine refugee to enter the country, so the refugees from countries such as Afghanistan, Syria , who are often have much to offer and are very well educated are left in limbo.
I was more interested listening to how Germany, where they have many more immigrants, has been glad to use the talents of these people to fill their gaps.

I'd like to know your evidence of "so much to offer". Such as ??. Evidence to show they have, so many on here seem to say they have good English, or relatives here, not seen much evidence of that either. Otherwise why are we having to put so many up in hotels, sacking the workforce employed there, or paying for translation services.
Notice Canada are not clamouring to take some of these migrants from Europe, as they did with the Hungarians in the past.perhaps its because these have left a safe country, France, Italy etc,and not a war zone, such as the Hungarians, or more recently the Ukrainians. This Government, and Labour will do no better,have and will let the people of this country down. We spend more on this than improving the lives of the poorest and homeless of our own. Read a recent report from France about our liberal and lax employment laws which enable people to easily enter our workforce,hence that is a draw to come to the UK. Germany only allows work if the asylum claim has been accepted, then as here, you are given refugee status, and are allowed to work. .Also,in UK, if your asylum application has been more than 12 months in processing, and not your fault, you can apply to work. All verified on Gov web sites.

Primrose53

MerylStreep

Germany have a huge immigrant workforce they can call on but it appears they aren’t the migrants they need. They have a huge problem recruiting skilled workers.

foreignpolicy.com/2023/03/22/skilled-migrants-arent-interested-in-germany/

My husband is half German so we have a lot of family out there. They all thought Mother Merkle was crazy when she threw open the doors and said Germany would “take them all”.
They all predicted she would then clear off into the sunset which is exactly what she did leaving everyone else to pick up the mess.

Germany is now paying the price with fights, overcrowding, crimes, unemployment, ghettos where no Germans will enter etc. There are a lot of very unhappy German people now.

My family over there would also back this up. Immigrants not integrating, and having a city within cities does not ensure social cohesion.

Oreo

Good article thanks Primrose53
Also really good interesting comments Terribull👏🏻👏🏻

Germany is now wishing it hadn’t let so many migrants in as there are problems there.
It’s true that all European countries need migrant workers but not uncontrolled migration or thousands arriving every other day illegally on small boats.

In what way is it "good". It is a rant, and an ill thought through rant at that.

It is, of course, ideal for the Mr and Mrs Angry who comprise the bulk of the DM readership. They will reward it with praise. The average person is left with nothing except the uncomfortable feeling of him indulging, and encouraging others to indulge, in their dystopian 1984-style minutes of hate.

MerylStreep

Germany have a huge immigrant workforce they can call on but it appears they aren’t the migrants they need. They have a huge problem recruiting skilled workers.

foreignpolicy.com/2023/03/22/skilled-migrants-arent-interested-in-germany/

My husband is half German so we have a lot of family out there. They all thought Mother Merkle was crazy when she threw open the doors and said Germany would “take them all”.
They all predicted she would then clear off into the sunset which is exactly what she did leaving everyone else to pick up the mess.

Germany is now paying the price with fights, overcrowding, crimes, unemployment, ghettos where no Germans will enter etc. There are a lot of very unhappy German people now.