The Refugee Ship

How many have actually been sent "home"? I have never seen any numbers quoted.

No Riverwalk whether they are brown or not probably shouldn't have been my first thought. Apologies. In fact I didn't even mention their colour or race or religion. I was concentrating on how they would actually have no opportunities to really mingle and gully integratevamongst a population which is undeniably predominantly white and elderly. As a Londoner have seen for myself how hostile Devon and Dorset can be towards incomers of all sorts. There is even conflict between young and old and resentment. It's how it is and unlike cities, these outposts won't change in a hurry.
It is just adding to the problems by foisting the refugees on those sometimes stuck in the mud people. From my experience people in cities are far less judgmental, so my leaning would be to offer the refugees more diversity.
I hope that is a bit clearer.

Germanshepherdsmum

Do you think they would be comfortable being so very obtrusive Riverwalk? It’s exactly the same in my area of north Norfolk - white retirees. Go to the city of Norwich, however, and you’ll find it multicultural - and there are gangs of asylum seekers roaming around there and doing a fair bit of shoplifting. You can’t make a predominantly white area multicultural by putting hundreds of male asylum seekers there.

I'm not trying to make any area multi-cultural GSM - why do you say that?

I'm saying why should 'white areas with elderly people' be exempt from accommodating asylum seeker, on the grounds that they stick out like a 'sore thumb'.

It is a national problem.

Do you think they would be comfortable being so very obtrusive

Are you interested in their comfort levels?

*gully = fully

Aspen

How many have actually been sent "home"? I have never seen any numbers quoted.

Asylum related returns accounted for 6% of total returns in the year ending September 2022, the same proportion as the previous year. In the year ending September 2022, there were 2,192 returns of people who had previously claimed asylum in the UK (see section 3.2 below for the definition of an asylum-related return).23 Feb 2023
www.gov.uk › statistics › ho...
How many people are detained or returned? - GOV.UK

Germanshepherdsmum

Precisely Joseann. And exactly the same in rural north Essex where the government thinks putting 1700 single men is a good idea.

So where should the 1,700 single men go?

toscalily

I think in the main we are hospital as a county to those who are in genuine need, we have welcomed and helped many in the past, most recently from the Ukraine.
We are a small island and there are limits to how many people we can realistically absorb and cope with.

No country can cope with a huge influx of ½ million people coming in each year.

Day after day we see this, how does that make those who are struggling to make ends meet, whether they are families, singles, or pensioners, living in poor conditions yet knowing no matter how bad your situation is these boat people will be fed & housed as soon as they get to the UK. All very well being eager to welcome any and all if you are living in a leafy suburb in your own house, maybe a car, a good bus service & lots of local amenities.

We do need people to come and work and live here but it has to be controlled immigration not what we have now, totally uncontrolled.

I agree.

Are you interested in their comfort levels?
I'm guessing we're all interested in some kind of harmonious living, but we haven't time to mess about experimenting with twee options when we know that most young men coming to the UK would themselves far prefer to be in cities than getting bored to tears after a week of sitting on a seafront bench with a load of grannies.

As an anecdote DS1 is a young fit man in his 30s. He chose to leave Devon for Bristol, where he isn't surrounded by the likes of his mum and dad, and where he can integrate with whoever is around at the time.

Riverwalk

Germanshepherdsmum

Precisely Joseann. And exactly the same in rural north Essex where the government thinks putting 1700 single men is a good idea.

So where should the 1,700 single men go?

Rwanda.

Germanshepherdsmum

Riverwalk

Germanshepherdsmum

Precisely Joseann. And exactly the same in rural north Essex where the government thinks putting 1700 single men is a good idea.

So where should the 1,700 single men go?

Rwanda.

Now? Not when the wheels of justice have ultimately said yes or no. It will be months.

Germanshepherdsmum

Riverwalk

Germanshepherdsmum

Precisely Joseann. And exactly the same in rural north Essex where the government thinks putting 1700 single men is a good idea.

So where should the 1,700 single men go?

Rwanda.

You're a lawyer and know that's not likely any time soon - so
in the meantime?

I trust it won’t be too long. In the meantime more barges.

Germanshepherdsmum

I trust it won’t be too long. In the meantime more barges.

It will. The consensus in the media seems to be that even if ultimately successful the Supreme Court ruling will take time, and it is therefore increasingly unlikely that flights to Rwanda will take off before the general election.
Are there even enough boats big enough to house all the asylum seekers we already have, and where will they be docked? It’s just not practical.

Germanshepherdsmum

Do you think they would be comfortable being so very obtrusive Riverwalk? It’s exactly the same in my area of north Norfolk - white retirees. Go to the city of Norwich, however, and you’ll find it multicultural - and there are gangs of asylum seekers roaming around there and doing a fair bit of shoplifting. You can’t make a predominantly white area multicultural by putting hundreds of male asylum seekers there.

I meet a lot of people holidaying here in North Norfolk from places like Leicester and Derby. They love it here because it still feels like “home”. I’ve met people who say they feel like outsiders in their own community now because so many others have moved in.

One couple I met, from Derby, said they are counting down the days until they can move here as they are currently required for childminding grandchildren but as soon as that stops they are on the move to Norfolk.

Casdon

Germanshepherdsmum

I trust it won’t be too long. In the meantime more barges.

It will. The consensus in the media seems to be that even if ultimately successful the Supreme Court ruling will take time, and it is therefore increasingly unlikely that flights to Rwanda will take off before the general election.
Are there even enough boats big enough to house all the asylum seekers we already have, and where will they be docked? It’s just not practical.

I am not a fan of the Rwanda plan.

We live in a commuter village new build one bedroom flats start at just under £300,000, rentals are few and far between upwards of £800 per month for 1 bedroom, and if you are really lucky around £1,000 for 2/3 bedrooms. The wait for social housing is as long as the proverbial piece of string

There are so many young people desperate for a home, I do wonder how long it will be before they start protesting at refugees, economic migrants and asylum seekers, being placed in social housing.

I have a lot of sympathy for those fleeing conflict and prejudice in the near future parts of the world will be facing those fleeing climate change.

Anybody got any solutions or ideas? because I definitely haven’t.

As a Londoner have seen for myself how hostile Devon and Dorset can be towards incomers of all sorts

Perhaps that was because of your condescending attitude, Joseann; 'stuck in the mud people', a bench of old grannies' conflict and resentment between old and young.'
I have lived here for thirty six years and never encountered hostility as an incomer.
Try walking round parks in the Midlands and see who is commandeering all the benches.

I have.
The UK needs to rejoin Eurodac, so we can identify people from the information they provided when they first entered the EU. It includes fingerprinting so there will be positive identification.
The Home Office needs good leadership politically, more staff, trained appropriately and supervised to process the backlog of applications, and most importantly to chase up information with other countries where it is missing. There’s a whole complex process that can’t be operated adequately by an understaffed and demoralised service.
Legitimate asylum seekers who are already in the system should be supported to remain and work in the UK
We should open a mechanism for people to apply legitimately for asylum so that entering the country through a dangerous sea route isn’t the only option they have to get here.
Finally and probably most importantly we should own the issue. If I hear one more person say they are France’s problem but not ours I think I’ll scream.

Casdon

I have.
The UK needs to rejoin Eurodac, so we can identify people from the information they provided when they first entered the EU. It includes fingerprinting so there will be positive identification.
The Home Office needs good leadership politically, more staff, trained appropriately and supervised to process the backlog of applications, and most importantly to chase up information with other countries where it is missing. There’s a whole complex process that can’t be operated adequately by an understaffed and demoralised service.
Legitimate asylum seekers who are already in the system should be supported to remain and work in the UK
We should open a mechanism for people to apply legitimately for asylum so that entering the country through a dangerous sea route isn’t the only option they have to get here.
Finally and probably most importantly we should own the issue. If I hear one more person say they are France’s problem but not ours I think I’ll scream.

I agree that there should be a way to apply to enter the country by legitimate routes, which would put out the people traffickers out of business.

I also agree that the H O should have sufficient staff in order to speed up applications.

Not totally up to date with other methods of identifying people other than Eurodac, other than that we have U.K. liaison officers based in Europol’s HQ.

Even if your ideas were out into plan immediately they do not cover housing, schooling (where applicable) and many of the U.K.’s overstretched infrastructure. The building of new social housing and schools, expanding the health service will take many many years, the Conservatives are not moving quick enough on these and from what I have heard from Labour they will be dragging their heals also.

One thing that doesn't work is spreading fear and hatred. Migration is a problem which we need to solve by working together not by setting groups of people against each other. Sadly, often the people who leave their country are the ones who could (perhaps) help to solve the problems that make them leave but they need help and support. This govt has cut overseas aid and is using over a third of what is left to fund these inhumane schemes. This doesn't make sense to me and I endorse what Casdon says.

Quite simply we can’t accommodate so many people arriving without visas, and immigration has to be controlled. It will take years, and Lord knows how much taxation, to provide housing, healthcare and education for such a huge influx of people - and that doesn’t take account of the very real needs of our own people who have in many cases paid into the system for years,

The people who arrive in boats (other than economic migrants) may have been desperate and fleeing war or persecution once but that ceased to be the case once they arrived in Europe. Yet still there are so many references to desperate people - desperate for what exactly which the UK offers but Europe doesn’t?

I think that pending being able to send people to Rwanda the government should consider two things:

A judicial review of the refusal of port authorities to allow barges to moor.

Chartering ocean liners which have all necessary facilities on board and can weigh anchor and be re-supplied as necessary in the same way as oil rigs. Liners can be repurposed to accommodate more people.

foxie48

One thing that doesn't work is spreading fear and hatred. Migration is a problem which we need to solve by working together not by setting groups of people against each other. Sadly, often the people who leave their country are the ones who could (perhaps) help to solve the problems that make them leave but they need help and support. This govt has cut overseas aid and is using over a third of what is left to fund these inhumane schemes. This doesn't make sense to me and I endorse what Casdon says.

Definitely agree spreading hate and fear, is not going to help the situation.

GrannyGravy13

Casdon

I have.
The UK needs to rejoin Eurodac, so we can identify people from the information they provided when they first entered the EU. It includes fingerprinting so there will be positive identification.
The Home Office needs good leadership politically, more staff, trained appropriately and supervised to process the backlog of applications, and most importantly to chase up information with other countries where it is missing. There’s a whole complex process that can’t be operated adequately by an understaffed and demoralised service.
Legitimate asylum seekers who are already in the system should be supported to remain and work in the UK
We should open a mechanism for people to apply legitimately for asylum so that entering the country through a dangerous sea route isn’t the only option they have to get here.
Finally and probably most importantly we should own the issue. If I hear one more person say they are France’s problem but not ours I think I’ll scream.

I agree that there should be a way to apply to enter the country by legitimate routes, which would put out the people traffickers out of business.

I also agree that the H O should have sufficient staff in order to speed up applications.

Not totally up to date with other methods of identifying people other than Eurodac, other than that we have U.K. liaison officers based in Europol’s HQ.

Even if your ideas were out into plan immediately they do not cover housing, schooling (where applicable) and many of the U.K.’s overstretched infrastructure. The building of new social housing and schools, expanding the health service will take many many years, the Conservatives are not moving quick enough on these and from what I have heard from Labour they will be dragging their heals also.

My understanding regarding Eurodac is that until the end of 2020 the UK had access to the Eurodac system, but from 2021 access has been limited to transfer requests made prior to the beginning of 2021. This really needs to be sorted out urgently.

I personally think the only option the UK has until the necessary actions to bring control of the process in again is to suck it up. That does mean that all over the UK unsuitable accommodation will be used and communities will be affected, but there is no other realistic choice - certainly not 1000+ cruise ships moored offshore as being suggested by others. This is going to continue for months at best.

Who is suggesting 1000+ cruise ships? Repurposed cruise ships could each accommodate thousands of people. Without repurposing cruise ships can hold between 2000 and 4000 people. That number can be increased and they can sit offshore. Better facilities than many British people have,

eazybee

^As a Londoner have seen for myself how hostile Devon and Dorset can be towards incomers of all sorts^

Perhaps that was because of your condescending attitude, Joseann; 'stuck in the mud people', a bench of old grannies' conflict and resentment between old and young.'
I have lived here for thirty six years and never encountered hostility as an incomer.
Try walking round parks in the Midlands and see who is commandeering all the benches.

Oh dear, I'm not doing very well here today, am I.
The stuck in the mud and old grannie comment was ME, I am both. I have lived on and off in Devon since 1985, so 2 years more than you, eazybee! My children are married to Devonians, my best friends are Devonian, they have every right to worry about Londoners turning up and buying houses here. Same with the Bretons, incomers from Paris are not welcome with open arms. People everywhere are protective of their territory, wary of strangers and scared of change.
Apologies if a condescending attitude was what came across.