White Privilege - MET Police

Assumptions about what people should have done in a certain situation with little knowledge about how things actually happened are a clear example of unconscious bias

Maggiemaybe

To be fair, we only see a snapshot of the end of the incident, not what went before. The Met case is that they only intervened after the woman refused several times to show her ticket to an inspector, then to a PCSO. That she continued to refuse to show her ticket and walk away when they asked. Why would she do this? Some reports say she was abusive while on the bus, but without seeing the whole incident we just don’t know, do we?

From the man who filmed the incident, claiming to be her brother: Clement says that action must be taken and that he encourages people to film the police in order to get justice. He said: “I classed the woman as my sister. Any black woman in distress is my sister.”

Is this what we want, video vigilantism? What next? Do we want this to happen in our hospitals as well - cameras shoved into doctors’ faces and people ranting and swearing away demanding answers? Could you do your job in these circumstances? Surely we all know by now that selective video clips posted online rarely give a true picture.

Good post Mmb knee jerk reactions are never reliable.

Fleurpepper

DiamondLily

I've travelled on London buses all of my life, including with children, prams and shopping.

If asked to produce my ticket/pass, I have. They don't listen to "yes, I've paid".🙄

I cannot understand why this escalated into an argument - why didn't the mother just prove she'd paid? 🤔

As Riverwalk said 'From what I read she was getting off at the stop they all got on, she had a child, a buggy and shopping so had her hands full - not a great situation to have to get out your travel pass/mobile phone to prove you've paid'

but the thing is, when, again, and again, and again some more- you are the only one who is asked, in the shops, at the airport, in the street, in public transport - again, and again- the only one- then no wonder you begin to react negatively. I have seen it so so many times- the black person being the only one stopped, the only one asked, the only one targetted - and I think to mysel, why he, why she, why them? And how I would feel, when it happens, as said above, again and again, since you are a child.

Well, I've been asked, many times, for proof of of payment on public transport.

I'm a white Cockney lass.

My 2 kids were 18 months apart in age, and I had to drag a double buggy, shopping, kids etc on buses, and I could still produce a ticket.

Not sure what the problem was here - just prove you've paid - simple. 🙄

Maggiemaybe

^DH did question why he needed to take off his belt and shoes - and got swiftly taken away and strip searched at one airport.^

Mine got threatened with the same at Manchester when he protested a little too robustly about having to put his asthma inhaler into a plastic bag. Luckily for him I created an unintentional diversion by scattering 3 weeks’ worth of daily disposable contact lenses across the floor.

Oh well done.

DH will question everything!

Luckily for him I created an unintentional diversion
I misread that as 'Luckily for him I created an international diversion' 😄

No VioletSky the examples given are absolutely not showing clear unconscious bias. That is only in your head because that is what you want to see. The examples given are of people who have produced their tickets when asked, and I’m minded to remind you that you have absolutely no idea what colour skin any of these posters have got unless they have actually said.

People don't know they have unconscious bias

It's unconscious

jane1956

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I accept the argument asking why this passenger appears to have resisted showin her ticket. I don’t accept the rejection of the belief that white privilege doesn’t exist.
It’s also an established fact that black people are stopped and searched, stopped for driving when black, black males seen as more dangerous than their white counterparts.
Your comment jane1956 demonstrates all those things. please tell me if I am missing out of benefits that I should or would get if black.
I see thst comment as offensive and racist

People don't know they have unconscious bias

It's unconscious

So asking a black person for proof they have a valid ticket is unconscious bias but asking the same of a white person is just doing the job?

I call that total BS.

There is far more to this story than just asking for a ticket

And yes black people are stopped more often than white people, that's a fact

Black people tend to get more aggressive handling by police, another fact

Those are recognised facts within the police

VioletSky

There is far more to this story than just asking for a ticket

And yes black people are stopped more often than white people, that's a fact

Black people tend to get more aggressive handling by police, another fact

Those are recognised facts within the police

There is indeed far more to this story than just "asking for a ticket". This woman was asked for her ticket by a TFL ticket inspector, then by a PCSO, and then by a police officer, and she refused each request and attempted to leave the scene. In these circumstances, I'm confident that anyone doing so would have been arrested and detained - regardless of their colour, gender or any other characteristic. And having been arrested, how else was she supposed to be restrained from her continued attempts at leaving the scene? Put in an arm or head-lock? Taken to the ground? Handcuffing allows the prisoner to be restrained with minimal force. Any 'aggression' shown in the video of this incident came from the mother and her interfering phone-wielding self-styled 'brother'. Any upset caused to the child was their fault.

She was innocent

If you were accused of stealing as an innocent, would you happily have your person searched?

If you protested, would you expect to be arrested and manhandled without evidence of guilt?

If this were a regular issue for you, being followed by security or being accused of things you haven't done... Would you remain amenable

That's often life for black people and if those guards gave any clue that she was being singled out over her appearance I think telling them to get lost entirely reasonable

And she has a huge amount of rightful support

In this country we are innocent without proof of guilt and of people try to use blackness as proof of guilt they are going to get denounced rightfully

Also trust me, the police absolutely know they have an unconscious bias problem, look up the amount of extra training they have implemented trying to deal with it

I think every organisation should implement it

VioletSky
You have to produce your ticket if asked to either by the TFL ticket inspector or PCSO or the Police.It may be a nuisance to have to find the ticket but that’s the ticket inspectors job to make sure everyone has paid.

They have to ask people of all colours and races to produce their ticket, that’s how a ticket inspector does their job.

In London a lot of TFL staff are black btw as are PCSO’s and also Police.

They completely mishandled the situation

They were far too rough with her

They separated her from her minor child

That's way over the top for a bus ticket

We have no clue how she was spoken too by the staff

We have no clue if she was singled out in a crowd

We have no idea why she chose to try and walk away from them

Absolute over reaction.

Everyone knows they have to produce proof of payment if required.

It applies across the board to anyone travelling: tourists soon pick it up.

Everyone knows the consequences of not doing so and no one is exempt.

Inspectors follow strict and set procedures when on duty, often in pairs to ensure these are met.
They are not allowed to let anyone off even if they wanted to, or make allowances for the absence of a ticket.

The system in this instance is very cut and dried .

You guys haven't actually seen it have you?

Faces are blurred so should be fine to post

youtu.be/m4tSDYSa5Jc

She hands them the ticket right at the beginning and they are still manhandling her 2 minutes later

So yes this has been completely mishandled by the police, she is obviously confused by what is happening and look how many officers and train staff are in the video

You guys

Which men?

Oh now the language police are here too

Very distressing video. It needn’t have happened.

Delia what upset me is you can see she is trying to get to her son

VioletSky

You guys haven't actually seen it have you?

Faces are blurred so should be fine to post

youtu.be/m4tSDYSa5Jc

She hands them the ticket right at the beginning and they are still manhandling her 2 minutes later

So yes this has been completely mishandled by the police, she is obviously confused by what is happening and look how many officers and train staff are in the video

No she didn't. She handed a ticket/card over about half way through the video, once she paused dragging everyone round in circles with her, and once her "brother" paused for breath in haranguing the poor police officers and ticket inspectors for trying to do their jobs. Confused? Train staff? I thought she was on a bus...

Delila sorry

Taken my glasses off again

Very insensitively handled - there was no need for any of that.