Why do national populists attack their countries old and respected institutions?

MerylStreep

So the op isn’t really about national populist but once again another attack on Nigel Farage
. Gina Miller has had her bank a/c closed for political reasons.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66328098

And there are people who are clapping their hands because a Brexit leader had a bank account shut. Now we have one who tried in court to get brexit stopped. 😂

my thoughts too mstreep

Attacking the judiciary is beyond the remit of a normal, democratic government. In my opinion. I hope it doesn’t all end in civil war.

Yes, that’s what I meant Whitewave, ordinary Jewish people do not support him, whilst the Orthodox community do support him.

So looking at Netanyahu with his populist hat on , he is attacking Israel’s judicial institution, whilst at the same time dividing the country.

Text book!

maddyone

Yes, as far as I can tell, ordinary Jewish people do not support him.

I think that the Orthodox Jews certainly support Netanyahu, for at least a couple of reasons. The first is his expansionist policies. Orthodox Jews make up the majority of settlers in the illegally settled West Bank which used to belong to Jordan before Israel’s illegal annexation, and secondly, he had promised to exempt Orthodox Jews from army service.

Israel is in fact a secular state, with many of the population, although identifying as Jewish, rather like many in this country identifying as Christian, but not practicing. So these folk are opposing Netanyahu for a number of reasons. They are concerned that Netanyahu is turning the country into an authoritarian nationalistic state, with their democratic processes under severe threat, and they see the exemption of Orthodox Jews as pandering to religious orthodoxy which goes against Israel’s secular status.

Religious zealots are dangerous wether Jewish or Islamic but until Israel elects a moderate government nothing will change. Civil War?, I wouldn't back the moderates, the extremists will fight much harder.

Yes, as far as I can tell, ordinary Jewish people do not support him.

FRom fascism to fascism - how can anyone support it- especially if you have suffered so much at the hands off.
I have many Jewish friends who are appalled at what he is doing, and would not, and could not, support his actions- and his putting the country on the edge of Civil War- and making the rest of the world very wary about traditional Jews.

Jewish people support the homeland of Israel because of the Holocaust. There are many still alive who either were caught up in the Holocaust or their parents were. Now they feel that this must never happen again- quite rightly, and so they see support of Israel as ensuring that there always is a homeland for Jewish people. It is not about support for Netanyahu, it is about support for their homeland. Two different things.

Katie59

Most US Jews are not orthodox but they will defend the “homeland” to the end, no US polititian would dare upset the Jewish lobby, it would be political suicide.

It certainly would. But that is different from propping up Netanyahu

Most US Jews are not orthodox but they will defend the “homeland” to the end, no US polititian would dare upset the Jewish lobby, it would be political suicide.

Netanyahu is only in power because he made deals with extreme right wing and ultra orthodox groups and these proposed changes to the law are the price. I don't think he will get away with this, the demonstrations are not going away. Worth noting the connection here; Jared Kushner, son in law of Trump, a man given office on no basis other than nepotism, has strong family links to Netanyahu.

The majority of Jews in America are absolutely not Orthodox Jews. Most are not any different than you or I except they go to Synagogue on Saturday whilst I go to church on Sunday (well sometimes I do.) There are also many Jews who are not religious at all but follow the Jewish calendar ie they celebrate Hanukkah, whilst many people in Britain/America are not religious at all but they follow the Christian calendar ie they celebrate Christmas.
I don’t know how many Jews are Orthodox in Israel, but probably a bigger percentage than in the UK or America, but there are also many Jews in Israel who are not Orthodox.

WWM Thanks for posting this. Very interesting.

I remember watching a programme about religion in the States. It was many years ago and possibly fronted by Richard Dawkins.

One interview has remained in my memory. It was with a 20 something Christian who had converted to Judaism and was headed fr a kibbutz. One reason he gave was the lack of control that men had over the way in which women dressed.

Some year later (2016) we traveled to New York on a flight with several orthodox Jews. They were in family groups, with lots of children. The women were clothed from head to foot - completely covered up to the extent that they also wore wigs to cover their hair. Of course no one but their husbands would see an inch of their bare skin and I guess that is what this young man would have liked too.

There is no way that the USA is going to intervene with Netanyahu because they don't want to upset their Jewish population.

The reason populists undermine national institutions, although I would put what Netanyahu, is doing, not as demolishing institutions, but undermini the rule of law, the first step onthe way to dictatorship.

Populists undermine institutions ofthe state, or what they see as institutions of the state, for the reasons you state. Populism is based on activating 'the masses', and populist leaders do like to see people as 'masses' rather than individuals, against the 'elite', aka governments that populist leaders do not like. and everything that the state is associated with.

To be a populist leader you need to be a demagogue, and rouse peoples emotions and play with them - like the Hungarian leader and tyhen lead them to demand the destruction anything in the way of the demagugues rise to power.

Israeli politics is not difficult to understand the ultra orthodox religious parties hold the balance of power, if challenged they will fight - to the last Palestinian.

Surrounding countries are very cautious handling Israel because they probably have nuclear weapons, they don’t care what others think and the US supports them

eazybee

Nigel Farage is not 'attacking elitist banks', he is defending himself against untrue and unjust accusations, and in so doing has exposed malpractice of which many were unaware.

He didn't trouble to attack the banks when Muslim account holders found their accounts closed. don't think that anybody did.

freya the term populism is used to describe a particular type of political stances which pitches the “people” against the “elite”. It is a form of divide and rule.

So yes a populist can be from either the left or right of the political spectrum, but no - not just like Starmer, and most Tory MPs.

MayBee70

ie The populists make the electorate believe that they’re working for them. Who they are actually working for I really don’t know. And, the ultimate result, in some cases will result in dictatorships. Which, strangely enough is probably what a lot of people want in that they don’t then have to bother themselves with political issues.

Just like Starmer then. Or any other politician for that matter. They all say what they think the population wants to hear, as soon as the power comes their way, anything but. Heard of communism, is they populist too. Left wing dictatorships abound around the world.

MayBee70

ie The populists make the electorate believe that they’re working for them. Who they are actually working for I really don’t know. And, the ultimate result, in some cases will result in dictatorships. Which, strangely enough is probably what a lot of people want in that they don’t then have to bother themselves with political issues.

Themselves and cronies, they are certainly not democratic whatever they say, and you will find almost without fail that in every case the population has been successfully divided rather than working for the good of the entire country.

Look at Israel. Look at the USA, look at the U.K. and in every case there is more violence and hate.

Whitewavemark2 maybe, just maybe the electorate across the globe is becoming increasingly frustrated by old school politics and what they see as the ruling elite and are looking for something more

There isn’t anything more though is there?

Whoever is in government, and new people are running banks and conglomerates become the new elite and respected institutions (monarchy, judiciary etc) and the cycle begins over again.

Whitewavemark2

With regards Netanyahu, he is intent on passing many laws that would not pass the reasonable test, particularly laws relating to Orthodox Jews etc and he is risking civil war imo.

Yes! I think that’s right. My Jewish friends who live in America (he is an Israeli citizen but she is not) seem to dislike the way things are going.
I’ve always wanted to visit Israel. My husband has always refused to go saying it’s not safe. The way things are going I’ll never get there. I would love to wander the old streets of Jerusalem.

maddyone

I don’t know what will happen Whitewave. I don’t really understand American politics either, despite getting frequent explanations from my son. I’m just hoping Trump will not get back into power.

I second that, but honestly what I see and read does not fill me with confidence.

ie The populists make the electorate believe that they’re working for them. Who they are actually working for I really don’t know. And, the ultimate result, in some cases will result in dictatorships. Which, strangely enough is probably what a lot of people want in that they don’t then have to bother themselves with political issues.