An election looms, so I think it is time to look at all the success over the 13 years that we have witnessed from the government.

Galaxy

The graves they went to on average at age 40. I am not sure it helps to compare, I wouldnt under any circumstances wanted to have brought up children in that era.

Improving the sewage system improved health and probably raised life expectancy a bit.

It is notable, though, that Bazalgette's mammoth and much needed works still ended up with London sewage being discharged just a bit further down the Thames and being swept out to sea. Our modern water companies are just following an historical precedent

Actually, Casdon, I admire the Victorians greatly, for their attempts to improve health, their engineering ability and their incredible architecture.

MayBee70

The trouble is because we became an industrial nation before most other countries our infrastructure is Victorian and needs replacing. We’re just putting sticking plasters over the many problems. Maybe, being a small island, we find it far too easy to just pump sewage out to sea and try to forget about it.

Apparently our waterways were due for an audit this year, and I think we can guess what the result would be.

The government has put it off for 5-6 years😮

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines. We're trying to get this thread back on track.

Maybee70 I agree with you, Conservatives stand together to win elections by appearing more confident they convince voters by it.
Labour have always had more in-fighting and less confidence about elections tho I think they did feel more secure when Blair became leader.Since then there was the huge own goal of Jeremy Corbyn amongst other things.The very left wing members of the party are always at odds with the rest. Now is the time to stand united, it’s their best hope of winning.

Labour turns its back on workers rights

Galaxy

The graves they went to on average at age 40. I am not sure it helps to compare, I wouldnt under any circumstances wanted to have brought up children in that era.

What it highlights though is how far the Victorians advanced works of all kinds which benefitted society. We know what we are capable of doing, but are no longer advancing. There’s just no excuse 150 years later to not keep our sewage systems maintained.

Even the rich industrialists of the past realised that the best way to increase productivity was to look after their workforce.

MayBee70

Even the rich industrialists of the past realised that the best way to increase productivity was to look after their workforce.

Most of them although I don't think the mine owners were altruistic.

Many others, of course, built decent housing for their workers.

It is good to realise that altruism still survives, but in the long term it really isn’t the answer for an equal society, where everyone is well fed, well house and with access to health and education.

That is the job of a government.

Whitewavemark2

It is good to realise that altruism still survives, but in the long term it really isn’t the answer for an equal society, where everyone is well fed, well house and with access to health and education.

That is the job of a government.

I agree.

Although charities will always have their place because the world will never be equal.

Whitewavemark2

It is good to realise that altruism still survives, but in the long term it really isn’t the answer for an equal society, where everyone is well fed, well house and with access to health and education.

That is the job of a government.

Only government?

Hasn't the Labour party has said it will not nationalise the energy sector, although it would establish a new publicly-owned clean energy company, Great British Energy, if it wins the next general election?

What do Labour suporters expect Great Britsh Energy to look like?

Yesterday’s Financial Times reports that the Labour Party is preparing a major rollback on workers’ rights. This is significant news – after years of abandoned pledges under Keir Starmer’s leadership, employment rights was the last bastion of transformative policy in the party programme. Now it appears that too might be sacrificed.

So you follow the FT Grany. Interesting.

I can't see their presentation of this as anything but what I would expect from that particular newspaper - and from you.

That Starmer is bowing to practicalities, rather than the frighteningly far-left, only increases his chances of gaining essential centre and centre-left votes. He and his team have already made it clear they will not be able or, it seems, willing to change everything on day one, should they be elected. They have clarified what they can do. Hopefully their changes will be incremental and not extreme.

I'm not sure that telling us Starmer isn't Corbyn is actually a winning line for the F.T.

Grany

Yesterday’s Financial Times reports that the Labour Party is preparing a major rollback on workers’ rights. This is significant news – after years of abandoned pledges under Keir Starmer’s leadership, employment rights was the last bastion of transformative policy in the party programme. Now it appears that too might be sacrificed.

Can I ask you again: what do you actually want? Another five years of Tory rule? Corbyn back as leader of the Labour Party? You can’t constantly criticise without offering some sort of alternative.

Honestly when have workers' rights been "far left". If you don't understand that what a lot of confirmed labour voters are now seeing is a choice between far right and right wing policies, then you've missed the shift to the right that is happening, and has been happening, for several years. And the problem is not just that Starmer will fail to make any difference to the inequalities of society, it is also that he may not even get the chance, because there is a real danger that the public will see no difference and will not turn out to vote for either party in great numbers. But it will be the LP which will suffer most and we might just see a hung parliament or another Tory government

I’m speechless.

Observer report

28% gap between Labour and Tories amongst women
21% gap amongst men.

It is largely the economy that is driving people away from the Tories.

Sensible and rational decision given their record over 13 years and the state of the country.

The other thing of interest is that apparently the “stop the boats” and “culture wars”that the Tories are trying to focus on, cuts little ice with women.

Women prioritise, health, social care and education, which are the issues that labour consistently lead on.

there is a real danger that the public will see no difference and will not turn out to vote for either party in great numbers But it will be the LP which will suffer most and we might just see a hung parliament or another Tory government^

I don't think that the general voting public will go for either party 'because they see no difference'. because I don't think that the general voting public give much thought to where the parties stand on the political spectrum. I think that they will mostly vote Labour because nothing they care about is working under this tory government and Labour is promising that it will make a difference. They are also not doing anything that will give the tories and the predominantly right wing media attack line.

It's a very sorry state of affairs and I find it heartbreaking that the Labour leadership is constantly ignoring wide open goals, but, unless there is a radical change over the next 12 months, I can't see anything but a Labour victory.

But it will be the LP which will suffer most and we might just see a hung parliament or another Tory government

I hope it will be a hung parliament, but would the Lib Dems, who would inevitably be a coalition partner, bring any more vaguely 'socialist' policies to it?

MayBee70

Grany

Yesterday’s Financial Times reports that the Labour Party is preparing a major rollback on workers’ rights. This is significant news – after years of abandoned pledges under Keir Starmer’s leadership, employment rights was the last bastion of transformative policy in the party programme. Now it appears that too might be sacrificed.

Can I ask you again: what do you actually want? Another five years of Tory rule? Corbyn back as leader of the Labour Party? You can’t constantly criticise without offering some sort of alternative.

Grany is back to her old trick of not quoting her source. These aren’t your words Grany, they are a direct lift. Would you tell us which publication they are from please?

Casdon

MayBee70

Grany

Yesterday’s Financial Times reports that the Labour Party is preparing a major rollback on workers’ rights. This is significant news – after years of abandoned pledges under Keir Starmer’s leadership, employment rights was the last bastion of transformative policy in the party programme. Now it appears that too might be sacrificed.

Can I ask you again: what do you actually want? Another five years of Tory rule? Corbyn back as leader of the Labour Party? You can’t constantly criticise without offering some sort of alternative.

Grany is back to her old trick of not quoting her source. These aren’t your words Grany, they are a direct lift. Would you tell us which publication they are from please?

She did quote her source, Casdon. The FT

www.ft.com/content/30a8a3f1-c5ad-4b85-bb48-7b7de05470f4

No, sorry I didn’t make that clear I meant the actual words she used in her post MaizieD. I do know where it came from.

Casdon

No, sorry I didn’t make that clear I meant the actual words she used in her post MaizieD. I do know where it came from.

Indeed. I found the article by copying and pasting a few words into the FT search box...

😁

MaizieD

^there is a real danger that the public will see no difference and will not turn out to vote for either party in great numbers^ But it will be the LP which will suffer most and we might just see a hung parliament or another Tory government^

I don't think that the general voting public will go for either party 'because they see no difference'. because I don't think that the general voting public give much thought to where the parties stand on the political spectrum. I think that they will mostly vote Labour because nothing they care about is working under this tory government and Labour is promising that it will make a difference. They are also not doing anything that will give the tories and the predominantly right wing media attack line.

It's a very sorry state of affairs and I find it heartbreaking that the Labour leadership is constantly ignoring wide open goals, but, unless there is a radical change over the next 12 months, I can't see anything but a Labour victory.

But it will be the LP which will suffer most and we might just see a hung parliament or another Tory government

I hope it will be a hung parliament, but would the Lib Dems, who would inevitably be a coalition partner, bring any more vaguely 'socialist' policies to it?

Reading a Q&A thing with Starmer and he replied to the question what is your dream?

“ to win the election and become a major reforming labour government”

That gladdened my heart.