An election looms, so I think it is time to look at all the success over the 13 years that we have witnessed from the government.

Imo many Conservative voters, who would never have voted for Corbyn, are desperate to be given an alternative party that they can vote for, because the party that many have always supported is now unrecognisable. Look at the high profile Conservative Party politicians that have now left or distanced themselves from the party; eg Stewart, Soubry, Grieve. In the past a protest vote would have been voting LibDem, and that will be needed when it comes to tactical voting but for a change of government Labour have to win. Johnson’s personal ambitions have destroyed the Conservative Party as it used to be and they need to regroup.

Fury as national health check of England’s waters faces six-year wait - full article in the Guardian.

And yes, I am angry- VERY. The Governement has delayed the assessment of UK waterways which should be done every year- and now say it could take up to SIX years! Not surprising as they know the results would be dire and dangerous, and a disaster for wildlife and bio-diversity.

It is predicted that the pollution that has been allowed to take place last few years, could take until 2063 to clean up! And the pollution from sewerage continues.

Full article here

www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/aug/19/fury-as-national-health-check-of-englands-waters-delayed-by-six-years?CMP=share_btn_fb

and yes, we CAN do something about it- and vote them out. Well worth our energy and efforts.

Workers rights abandoned

The explanation for this latest capitulation is obvious – Labour wants to prove its pro-business credentials in order to woo corporate donors.

labourheartlands.com/labours-identity-crisis-flipping-on-workers-rights-betrays-ideological-bankruptcy/

And Scotland will join as soon as it becomes independent.

Grany

Workers rights abandoned

The explanation for this latest capitulation is obvious – Labour wants to prove its pro-business credentials in order to woo corporate donors.

labourheartlands.com/labours-identity-crisis-flipping-on-workers-rights-betrays-ideological-bankruptcy/

Workers rights aren’t being abandoned😄😄. There will be no watering down to the existing rights.

What Starmer is doing is to work with businesses to ensure that they will accept any workers rights reform, rather than impose these onto the business world.

It seems a sensible way forward.

I agree Whitewavemark2

MayBee70

Grany

Yesterday’s Financial Times reports that the Labour Party is preparing a major rollback on workers’ rights. This is significant news – after years of abandoned pledges under Keir Starmer’s leadership, employment rights was the last bastion of transformative policy in the party programme. Now it appears that too might be sacrificed.

Can I ask you again: what do you actually want? Another five years of Tory rule? Corbyn back as leader of the Labour Party? You can’t constantly criticise without offering some sort of alternative.

What Grany wants could be described as the "Grany Party". This would be a party that offers everything she wants.

Obviously, this cannot happen. That isn't democracy. We all chose the party to which we are least opposed. Sometimes that is very close to what we want. Sometimes it is further away. Often we choose the party setting out on the path closest to the one we want them to tread and at least going in the right direction. That may be the best we can get at some elections.

Sadly, sometimes people vote for the snake oil salesman. The politician who promises everybody everything, but doesn't tell them how they're going to achieve it.

Democracy is inherently about compromise. Anyone who promises more is simply lying to you.

Granny23

And Scotland will join as soon as it becomes independent.

The EU ? No way, not without a customs border.

Back to "Grany's" suggestion that "Workers rights (have been) abandoned".

There is an explanation to those those short of understanding (never thought I would be saying that about the FT!) here www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENDP0r4aavc. I do think you owe it to yourself to watch this if you are going to make statements about the Labour Party, quoting the FT.

These links are in the notes under the video but I know some find watching difficult - it's about 7 minutes by the way - so I will put them here too.

Labour Party policy document: labour.org.uk/page/a-new-deal
Angela Rayner statements: twitter.com/AngelaRayner/status/1692453162102268064

Katie59

Granny23

And Scotland will join as soon as it becomes independent.

The EU ? No way, not without a customs border.

If Scotland became independent
And if the EU Council approved the application unanimously.

Surely by now we have all realised how utterly damaging it has been for the UK to leave a union we had been part of for forty years,

King James VIth of Scotland took the English throne after the death of the English Queen Elizabeth I in 1603.

The Union of the Parliaments of Scotland and England happened in 1707.

Scotland and England are far more closely entwined than the UK and EU ever were.

If such awful destruction we have experienced here since 2016 has taught us anything, surely we can agree that it is just unthinkable to imagine the damage that could be done be severing a union of three or four hundred years.

I’m not bothered wether Scotland become independent or not but if they do there should be a full customs border and no representation at Westminster.

If that does happen, yes they can join the EU but what they really want of course is a cherry picking deal, their choice in or out.

Labour is trending on Twitter though not in a good way. Here are a few of the tweets.

Before you vote listen to Lowkey speaking to former Financial Times journalist Matt Kennard about his stunning investigations of Labour leader Keir Starmer.....

m.youtube.com/watch?v=RVWVxsRttCQ

Labour is in the same pockets as those who run the Tory party. Why would you vote for either?

Israeli ex spies dealing with Labour members, Mossad agents targeting MPs, why are we allowing Israel to have access to our institutions?

Starmer says there is no apartheid in Israel!

The worst kind of hypocrite, a Labour hypocrite. Crying tears over the 'Tories privatising our NHS' while right wing Labour stands ready to do exact same thing. Taking money from private healthcare donors.

This is the scandal Labour is defending. Working people pay higher taxes than the idle rich.

@premnsikka

UK tax system is rigged against workers. A worker on £32k wage pays £3,886 in income tax and £2,332 NIC; takes home £25,782 A speculator with £32k capital gains pays £2,600 in capital gains tax, no NIC, takes home £29,400. UK tax system is unjust. leftfootforward.org/2023/08/britains-tax-system-is-rigged-in-favour-of-the-rich/

And one of Starmer’s many failings as DPP

Andrew Malkinson would have been at home with his family for 14 years if your CPS had done its job, not ignored the DNA evidence that would have freed him...

Thanks Grany I’ve saved that YouTube link, it looks like powerful (if depressing) stuff.

nightowl

Thanks Grany I’ve saved that YouTube link, it looks like powerful (if depressing) stuff.

Yes its worth watching

UK tax system is rigged against workers. A worker on £32k wage pays £3,886 in income tax and £2,332 NIC; takes home £25,782 A speculator with £32k capital gains pays £2,600 in capital gains tax, no NIC, takes home £29,400. UK tax system is unjust. leftfootforward.org/2023/08/britains-tax-system-is-rigged-in-favour-of-the-rich/

I've been saying that for ages, Grany. Have you only just discovered it?

Maybe I should have made a you tube video...

The speculator is self employed and should pay the appropriate NIC, and also income tax on dividends (ok, the rate is low to encourage investment). No NIC, no free health care, state pension or other benefits,

income tax on dividends (ok, the rate is low to encourage investment).

Perhaps there should be a differentiated rate if an investment incentive is really needed; low only for shares where the purchase price is going directly to the company, e.g for a company start up.

The same as income tax rates for share speculators. Because we do know that most share purchases are of sold on shares, not purchase of the initial share issue.

Operating a differential rate of divided tax would be well nigh impossible.

Yes I know MaisieD you are very knowledgeable on UK economy and tax apriciated, thank you its an interesting subject. I was drawing on the fact that Labour has the same 'Fiscal Rule' 'Reeves" as Torries. And to be aware Starmer won't change much.
Some people say the left would never get in but people like the polices of 2017/19 they are popular Corbyn would have won in 2017 if his staffers nd establishment weren't working against him to loose election. Starmer establishment know these policies are popular with the public and so want to get rid of the left put everything back on in a box to stop democracy happening again.

True. I was just trying to be kind to your venture capitalists...

I'd say, stop giving dividend income a separate tax free allowance, aggregate it with any earned income and tax the lot subject to the same personal allowance.

That would be good for investment wouldn’t it?

Grany

Labour is trending on Twitter though not in a good way. Here are a few of the tweets.

Before you vote listen to Lowkey speaking to former Financial Times journalist Matt Kennard about his stunning investigations of Labour leader Keir Starmer.....

m.youtube.com/watch?v=RVWVxsRttCQ

Labour is in the same pockets as those who run the Tory party. Why would you vote for either?

Israeli ex spies dealing with Labour members, Mossad agents targeting MPs, why are we allowing Israel to have access to our institutions?

Starmer says there is no apartheid in Israel!

The worst kind of hypocrite, a Labour hypocrite. Crying tears over the 'Tories privatising our NHS' while right wing Labour stands ready to do exact same thing. Taking money from private healthcare donors.

This is the scandal Labour is defending. Working people pay higher taxes than the idle rich.

@premnsikka

UK tax system is rigged against workers. A worker on £32k wage pays £3,886 in income tax and £2,332 NIC; takes home £25,782 A speculator with £32k capital gains pays £2,600 in capital gains tax, no NIC, takes home £29,400. UK tax system is unjust. leftfootforward.org/2023/08/britains-tax-system-is-rigged-in-favour-of-the-rich/

That post says more about who you are prepared to believe than it does about the Labour Party or any other party.

You don't have to like or want a Labour government. For many of us, it's not exactly where we want to be. Labour has not said it will privatise the NHS. Starmer has said that, at least in the first instance, they may have to buy into the services of some areas of the private sector. We can all see how run down and overstretched the NHS is; that is just being pragmatic about what will handed to them.

Those who look after our safety say there are "fluid boundaries" between extreme derogatory thinking and far worse action. Rhetoric of this kind can shift the boundaries of what is considered acceptable public debate towards the normalisation of much worse behaviour. Please, for your own sake, take care of what you are getting involved with.