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Re-negotiate the Dublin Agreement and provide safe passage

(88 Posts)
Whitewavemark2 Sun 13-Aug-23 10:08:36

The asylum issue would be dealt with at a stroke.

Simples

Whitewavemark2 Tue 15-Aug-23 13:01:23

They were able to do so because of U.K. domestic law -

Iam64 Tue 15-Aug-23 13:08:06

Our Judiciary is independent. Who do you think are ‘our judges’ fancy that?

maddyone Tue 15-Aug-23 13:46:25

Oooops, sorry, I got that wrong, Whitewave you’re right, ECHR was set up to protect the rights of citizens so that governments can never again commit crimes such as the Holocaust. I already knew Churchill set up it up. The EU was set up to prevent war, although I never understood how a trading organisation could prevent war. In my opinion NATO is the organisation which protects us from war.

Whitewavemark2 Tue 15-Aug-23 13:58:24

NATO doesn’t prevent war, it only steps in when one of it’s members are threatened, which is why people feel very queasy about accepting Ukraine's application at the moment.
NATO May act as a deterrent if the aggressor knows the country in its sights is a member of NATO.

The EU is the entity that has done the job of preventing war amongst its membership. It has been highly successful. Not every EU member is a member of NATO.

Ukraine is not a member of the EU, however it would not have prevented Russia from invading.

MaizieD Tue 15-Aug-23 14:51:47

The EU was set up to prevent war, although I never understood how a trading organisation could prevent war.

After two world wars in quick succession, both initiated by Germany, the European Coal and Steel Community was formed with the express intention of preventing Germany having free access to the two materials essential for the production of weaponry. The EU was founded on this desire to avoid future war in Europe.

The development of a trading bloc created economic ties between members which make the possibility of war more remote, for what country would want to lose its export market, or access to desirable imports?

There always was a move towards political integration. It has been partially achieved (probably as far as it will ever get) by the requirement for the member states to be governed by common democratic principles and a common recognition of the rights enshrined in the completely separate, but complementary) ECHR.

I think the fact that over 70 years later there has been no acts of military aggression between member states is indicative of the success of this particular trading organisation in avoiding war. However puzzled people might be by it...

fancythat Tue 15-Aug-23 15:04:24

Whitewavemark2

U.K. High Court - Court of Appeal - ruled the governments intention to transport as unlawful.

After late intervention by EctHR
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-61806383

fancythat Tue 15-Aug-23 15:04:57

Iam64

Our Judiciary is independent. Who do you think are ‘our judges’ fancy that?

Same as you Iam64

Whitewavemark2 Tue 15-Aug-23 15:18:51

fancythat

Whitewavemark2

U.K. High Court - Court of Appeal - ruled the governments intention to transport as unlawful.

After late intervention by EctHR
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-61806383

Yes because the asylum seeker appealed to the EHCR.

After that judgement the government appealed to the UKs court and lost.

fancythat Tue 15-Aug-23 16:08:43

Many people do not want or welcome EHCR involvement.

Now I think we are back full circle to your op.

A lot of people do understand this. No matter words by anyone that may try and hide things somewhat.

MaizieD Tue 15-Aug-23 16:20:00

Many people do not want or welcome EHCR involvement.

Many of them people who think that 'sovereignty' means the ability to completely isolate the UK from any European based institution, or people who don't even know the difference between the EU and the EHCR, or people who desperately want to treat asylum seekers ans non humans.

I would suggest that many more than 'many' are appalled at the idea of withdrawing.

Fleurpepper Fri 18-Aug-23 09:11:16

To claim asylum, a claimer has to be in the UK - hence the boats, and more boats...

Very well explained here

twitter.com/PeterSt.../status/1691378627022086144...

Fleurpepper Fri 18-Aug-23 09:14:10

Sorry, link does not work- and as we all know, impossible to edit or delete on this site (why oh why- so annoying).

In short

To claim asylum in the UK a person must actually be in the UK - Its not possible to apply from outside the country & there is no asylum visa to enable people to travel to the UK legally to apply for asylum. So for citizens who don’t have visa-free travel to the UK, to actually claim asylum in the U K, they must enter either irregularly - such as by small boat, lorry, or by using false documents, or on a visa for some other purpose - such as tourism or study. But Sunak’s Government cares nothing for facts