What is left about Labour now?

I do wonder MaizieD if there is in the British an inbuilt (if subconscious) belief that the standard of living should be kept down? That actually having more is in some way immoral and the best times are when people just have to cope. It ties in with all the "we grew up in a cardboard box" etc stuff.

You'd certainly think so, the way some people respond to others trying to improve their circumstances!

OTOH, they're not averse to acquiring more money themselves...

So what I think you are saying MaisieD, and I am willing to be set straight if I have got the wrong end of the stick, is that in order to win the next election, Labour have to pretend to support an economic theory which they know is not working for us all.

Having seen Milliband and Corbyn destroyed by the 'How are you going to pay for it? question I think they're right not to rock the boat. They can do what they like once they're in power. They have wriggle room. The electorate, on the whole, won't particularly notice. That is an observation born of my experience over the years.

And, TBH, the tories have done what they like for the past 13 years with no-one to stop them... I'm sure that Labour could manage that, too.

"They can do what they like without anyone to stop them" - with far less than half of the votes at a general election.

Is that democracy?

Ilovecheese

So what I think you are saying MaisieD, and I am willing to be set straight if I have got the wrong end of the stick, is that in order to win the next election, Labour have to pretend to support an economic theory which they know is not working for us all.

Frankly, that is exactly what I am hoping is the case. In fact I am sure it is. I am sure we all understand the reasons why they have to behave like this given the fact that Starmer is not inclined to schmooze with the likes of Murdoch etc as the Blair government found it necessary to do.

varian

"They can do what they like without anyone to stop them" - with far less than half of the votes at a general election.

Is that democracy?

Democracy is neither here nor there, varian.

I'm just saying that that is how it is. Over my lifetime it has been very, very rare for government actions to be influenced by public opinion in between elections.

Video from Double Down News George Monbiot.

Starmer says it’s ok Murdock you have nothing to fear from me what cowardice in the face of oligarchy

He has already tied his hands by not taxing the richest.

If policy is not in the manifesto he does not have a mandate to do it.

Starmer did seek out Murdock as early as 2008 when DPP going to parties.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=Zcn-LYa4fLE&feature=youtu.be

You know what, Grany? I admire George Monbiot in many ways, there are other 'anti Starmer' commentators who I admire in many ways, but I do not admire the way that they are behaving like a pair of Les Dawson ladies gossiping over a fence, taking little twigs of information from all over the place and stitching it together to make a story that speaks to their biases.

There isn't even a bl**dy manifesto for policies to be in yet.

As for Murdoch (note spelling) , 'Keep your friends close and your enemies closer'

Perhaps Starmer is establishment and will do what establishment want he did that while DPP

Grany

Perhaps Starmer is establishment and will do what establishment want he did that while DPP

Oh, I don't know, Grany.

Perhaps he's a communist mole; a revolutionary fifth columnist; a sleeper agent who will be activated to destroy the establishment from within once he holds the reins of power...

The Guardian reports on the Starmer re-shuffle saying that it was notable for it’s smoothness, recognising Sue Grays hand in the process.

The re-introduction of McFaddon and Benn has meant a move to a more Blairite shadow cabinet, with the soft left being represented by Starmer, Raynor and Miliband.

Thank for the heads up onvthe Guardian Whitewave. This may help.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/sep/04/winners-losers-keir-starmer-labour-reshuffle-shadow-cabinet

Reading that article it looks as if there is some succession planning going on. That gives me great joy - someone who can plan - as long as the policies are what we need, of course.

There is more analysis here: www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yE5619LYxs from The New Statesman

Another NewStatesman analysis on Labour's reshuffle.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=40-aqlaV9mo

One of the big questions being talked up is what will Starmer would do about tax. As a centrist, not a member of the Labour Party (or any party), I don't see this as a problem. Although the more left-wing Labourites might want lots of new taxes, I would start with the ones we have but get rid of every tax loophole they can, possible as an emergency measure for a limited time, while putting in place a review of the tax system.

I would hope they have basically had that review already as far as they can without access to the treasury - which they will have in the run up to an election. The current tax system does not seem fit for purpose and not fit for the age we are moving into.

Labour faces legal action over alleged mistreatment of Jews

voxpoliticalonline.com/2023/09/10/labour-faces-legal-action-over-alleged-mistreatment-of-jews/

Labour spent £500,000 on just a hearing to try find out who leaked the Labour report of staffers trying to loose election their disgusting WhatApp messages, as was they will end up spending millions just before election and this could be aired in public it’s been said there is no case Not a wise move

Poor Grany. They don't seem to be in favour of Granyism, do they.

Funny how all the peole concerned about anti-semitism under Corbyn seem to have melted away. Apparently some forms of anti-semitism are perfectly acceptable, which is very worrying.

DaisyAnneReturns

Another NewStatesman analysis on Labour's reshuffle.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=40-aqlaV9mo

One of the big questions being talked up is what will Starmer would do about tax. As a centrist, not a member of the Labour Party (or any party), I don't see this as a problem. Although the more left-wing Labourites might want lots of new taxes, I would start with the ones we have but get rid of every tax loophole they can, possible as an emergency measure for a limited time, while putting in place a review of the tax system.

I would hope they have basically had that review already as far as they can without access to the treasury - which they will have in the run up to an election. The current tax system does not seem fit for purpose and not fit for the age we are moving into.

Please, not another review of the tax system. HMRC cannot cope with the ongoing changes, implementation of which has been deferred a few times.

Then you would think a huge simplification of the system would help, Dinahmo.

DaisyAnneReturns

Then you would think a huge simplification of the system would help, Dinahmo.

That is what HMRC are apparently trying to do. At the moment the higher levels are software people and there are few people who know about small businesses and indeed taxation.

The underlying problem with HMRC is surely that there just aren’t enough staff to implement changes. Staffing was reduced by 22% by 2016 compared with 2010, and hundreds of local tax offices were closed. Of all government departments where the benefit of employing staff outweighs the cost of employing them, it’s HMRC, tax officers must be cost effective?

One would think so. The original estimate for introducing MTD for VAT in 2016 was £226 million. HMRC's latest estimate of costs is £1.3 billion. The introduction of MTD for non VAT registered business has been deferred 4 times.

Taxation is indeed a morass, year on year changes has made interpretation an “experts” only business. Do I expect changes?, no because it would cause chaos and the changeover would increase the staff cost.

Even a simple tax like VAT - 20% on sales and services, has generated thousands of pages of rules and exemptions, do we really believe it’s going to be made simple.

Casdon

The underlying problem with HMRC is surely that there just aren’t enough staff to implement changes. Staffing was reduced by 22% by 2016 compared with 2010, and hundreds of local tax offices were closed. Of all government departments where the benefit of employing staff outweighs the cost of employing them, it’s HMRC, tax officers must be cost effective?

Is that a reduction in total staff numbers or directly employed Casdon? Or is an additional percentage now indirectly employed?

Government seems very keen to off-load employment responsibilities these days.

I didn't really mean simplifying by picking at them. More a case of stop one and replace.